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Dearly Debated
Dearly Debated

Episode 7 · 2 years ago

Episode 7 - Spooky Scary

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We're joined once again by special guest Ashley Thomas to talk about HORROR! Nathanael is back from the dead! Greg keeps his shirt on! Jason's house is clearly haunted! 

Check out Ashley's video on Night of the Living Dead:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwCweV8TpY&t=521s

And her video on Alien:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvwCweV8TpY&t=521s 

So the album. Name of your album is songs of horror. Hey, will be right back to our documentary on stomach rashes. calcome in the middle and just a second. Oh, what was that? It was frightening, wasn't it? It was whore roar. You know what calling quite right, it's what all the songs in this CD set are about. Who are you saying that every song on this CD album has to do with whore? You Bet I am. Eight hundred songs on three hundred CDs. That's all about. Welcome everyone to the latest episode of dearly debated, the show where you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong. I'm your host, the Fanuel Aliens Levinson, and I am your cohost, Gregg. You better keep your top on, friends and make sense later. And I'm Jason Mystery and Daniel and I am Ashley Thomas. Perfect, beautiful. So, if you couldn't clue from the intro that I said that I tacked on and and the wonderful fully work from Ashley Thomas, we are talking about horror, horror, spooky, scary genre. That Greg and I don't know a whole lot about. Interesting Week of homework. Yeah, yeah, Ashley gave us some homework. We watched a couple of scary movies, but not scary movie, I don't think. I wouldn't say that any of them are overtly scary, but they are icons of the horror John I was referring to the really bad parody movies, scary, scary move that. See, I haven't actually seen that, I've seen clips of it and I know the clips were enough to make me know I never want to see it. Yeah, everything I know about it makes me not want to watch it. We should do an episode on parody. So once again there was a lightning storm and my my this week in history, maybe paper got replaced with a memo from an alternate dimension. So let's see, let's just see what what's been happening over there in a parallel universe, queen releases their seventy five album. Queen Quang Robo Freddie Mercury stated seventy four double platinum albums, and we're still no closer to discovering whether there are a finite number of musical for mutations that totally rock. The ambassador from the dinosaur protectorate called for the cessation of screenings of Jurassic Park, calling it species just propaganda. The ambassador released a press statement saying, quote. Seriously, how would you like it if we made movies about you apes being displayed for entertainment besides gladiator, I mean Michael Crichton, could not be reached for comment. The New York mets had another outstanding season, putting them in the running for best team ever, along with the Detroit Lions and the Charlotte bobcats. Baseball Hall of Famer Michael Jordan may have been an average basketball player, but he sure knows how to manage a pro sports team. The good ale leather MJ. Yeah, it's an alternate mg. Just just your run of I mean just absolutely he's just like Michael. Still has the home run record. Oh, impressive. Yeah, and fantastic, fantastic at running a basketball team, just absolutely outstanding. All right, so let's talk about whole whore or or or this is that we admittedly, don't know a ton about, but we brought with us an expert this fields that. So, Ashley, let's educate some people. Yeah, okay. So when we say horror, I think most people immediately think Freddy, Freddy and Jason, like the Classic Spooky, like the big the humanoid monster killers that are unstoppable, that are always hunting you down. That's not everything horror is, right. Yeah. So, just for sake of clarity, the really scholarly source wikipedia describes horror films as a horror film is a film that seeks to elicit fear for entertainment purposes. Talks about the macab and the supernatural or frequent themes. Horror may also overlap with the fantasy, supernatural, fiction and thriller genres. But yeah, basically the point is to be scary, and there I think. I think horror is more than that. I think they're there's some interesting philosophical things you can discuss behind horror, but just generally speaking, that's what a...

...horror film supposed to do. Is supposed to scare you. Yeah, I mean, and I've always found the ones that I the the premises that I find truly horrifying, or the ones where the killers just like a regular person, and not the ones where it's like the supernatural Juggernaut who just literally will never die, like man too angry to die, and it's just Jason, you know drugger, nodding through everything and like it's so ridiculous it becomes absurd. When I was a kid was the opposite. When I was a kid, of course I just didn't want to see the scary figures and like to think that those you could be out there. And when you get older it's like the more disturbing stuff you might to be way more realistic. is like like yeah, kind of fee those horrible figures. And now I'm reminding myself. I think could be a truth, and now that's I'm scared movies, like well done. Yeah, I just remember when I was a kid certain shows and movies that would scare me and I hated them. So now I'm some of these might sound weird, I think I want to say now I don't know. I don't actually know what movie it was, but I think it was beetlejuice and just being the the body horror. I remember some guy like bouncing around in his eyes like bugging out, and I was just like I hate this, I hate all of this. Gumby used to terrify me. There was a Weisode of ghostwriter. If you know what ghostwriters I do. I'm so proud of you. A ghost write. Her goes just my turn and not ghost writers, the writer. So ghost writer was this pbs I want to say was a PPS doesn't pbs show that we used to we used to get vhs has, we used to run vhss from the library and basically with these kids and this ghost would can take over their computer and like type out messages, and so they would go solve mysteries with this ghostwriter and I remember us being really young and the kids who were like fifth grader or older, and they didn't know what f the FBI was, and we're like these kids don't know what a FIS. They're so stupid. But I remember there was one episode in particular that we really loved where ghostwriters like going back in time and they're passing messages to these kids in like the s and he almost dies because it takes so much energy to travel back and down. I remember they did one where it was like a Halloween episode and they were writing the horror story and then it was like playing it out, in which I seen a lot of shows, like people are telling story and then it's like shows the characters actually doing the stuff, and I was just like this monster sewer thing that's lined everything. I hated it. I was like, why would you do this? I remember seeing the goosebumps covers in the library and I was like who reads this? These are nasty. I hate the I've never, I've never been one to seek out scaring things, even though, admittedly, that's all talk about later. I Love Horror Games, so what so. So I'm curious what got you into horror? A few different things. I used to so so my background. The very first horror movie I ever watched I was maybe like ten or eleven and my cousin and I watched psycho over Christmas, because you know, one of those Alfred Hitchcock Christmas classics, Psycho, that's what you watch on Christmas night, and I remember really enjoying the movie, even though it was. It was creepy and that's what happening. But I didn't really like horror at all, even though, like, I read a lot of the goosebumps books as a kid, I never thought they were super scary. I just thought they were interesting. What got me into horror, and before I was really into horror, was I what I would do is I would cite myself up and I would watch one horror movie a year at Halloween and I was good for the rest of the year, I watched the exorcist, I thought about it for months afterwards. A lot of mental preparation, a lot of mental preparation for that one. I guess maybe six or seven years ago I started listening to the retroist podcast because I am a curbudge and Lee like retro Gamer, and he talks a lot about video games, but he also talks a lot about retro TV and film and they you just all the all things retro and he covered a lot of horror movies on his podcast and I found that I thought all the stories for the horror films were very interesting and I really enjoyed learning about how they were made, especially because so many of them were on shoes during budgets and yet became these crazy blockbusters and our icons of the genre. So I just thought, wow, that's super interesting, like the forced creativity that had to happen when you are, you know, have small amounts of money to work with. So I thought like wow, that's really interesting. Maybe I could handle them. Maybe, maybe, maybe. And then there was a podcast that kind of split off from that that was connected to the site called Saturday frights, which was specifically about retro horror, and so the host, Vic Sage, would cover richer horror film, but he also look at Retro Horror Television, so like the twilight zone and night gallery and the outer limits, that sort of thing. Just like wow, these all sound really interesting too. Maybe I should try to watch some of these. But it wasn't until I watched stranger things and absolutely fell in love with stranger things, my favorite show. I knew enough about the things that stranger things draws from, specifically like alien...

...and John Carpenter's work, Stephen King's work, Steven Spielberg's work, just you know, those types of horror and thriller stories they draws from. So I recognized all of those things because I knew enough about the movies to recognize them. But it's like, okay, I love this show so much I ended up writing my master's thesis on Stranger Things. I need to go watch all these movies. So it did. Here in Charlotte we have the ears Legrand Theater over in South Charlotte and in October they always do a retro horror month. So they'll do two retro films a week. That's how I saw a lot of them. Some of the films were going to talk about today, I got to see them for the first time on the big screen and that was really special. So that's kind of what got me into horror and I just kind of, you know, for whatever reason, I'm not scared anymore. So it does, it does change a lot, just for me having a background in video production. I did. I did might like my as a kid. I would never had any interest. Is always like I knew that was going to scare me. Don't want to be scared. So next question is where it began and ended. And somewhere along the line I just started watching movies period, not just a horror movies in a different light as I started to learn film more and do it produce it myself, to where I could see things and whether I enjoyed the movie or not was kind of irrelevant. And it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy people always ask Oh, do you should not enjoy things? You sit in the critique. I'm like no, absolutely not. In reality. It just it makes me watch them differently and I enjoy different aspects of it, and so I can go back and watch, you know, a horror movie or some real old movie that may not like, hold a lot of entertainment value and I can just appreciate what it is they're doing. And so for that reason I have, I've been able to enjoy some horror movies, but it's still something that that it admittedly like. We said me. And if they don't, aren't that into and so we did a little homework. You gave us. You gave us a few now, few move it movies to now you said you watch psycho and you were ten in. Yeah, and you weren't like. So I actually saw psycho after I had watched whatever the latest, the the last looney tunes movie they ever did, and they have a psycho spoof in there. How funny. Where where? They're looking for a bug? The whoever? I don't remember the man. It's not Michael Jordan, because it wasn't in space jam, but for some reason my brains, including tunes, back in action. Yeah, I haven't actually seen it. Who is that? Britta Frazier? Yeah, anyways, he said he goes and he goes to find bugs. Bunny goes in this hotel room and bugs bunnies like in the shower singing, and so he walks into the bathroom and bugs bunny. It's in black and white and bugs only goes and then you see him pouring Hershey's chocolate syrup into the drain, which I actually got the blood effect in psycho. So and I was like what is happening? And then I watch psycho. Oh, okay, I'm actually really brilliant reference that nobody but the adults got right. Yeah, but so how did you ever watching psycho? At Pen? My my cousin, Jenna and I, we are the only two nerds in our family and she, she was always more into like horror and science fiction than I then I was as a kid, or at least it. She was into the more of the like adult side of that, whereas I'm watching Gargoyles and we both watched the x files together. That was our thing. Hmmm. So, funny enough, I ended up I was a big molder fan. I went into science fiction and she's a big scully fan and she became a nurse's effect is real. That's Legit, a real thing. But yeah, that that was that was it was something that she had. My uncle, Tim, her dad, is a big Sci fi horror guy, and so he had recorded a bunch of stuff off TV and I think that was how we got a copy of it. Jason, horror, any any previous experience? No, I I was jumping in pretty much blind as well. I grew up there was not a lot of there were not a lot of horror films in my home growing up. That I'm shot really that that upset about it. Yeah, you did not even like the exorcist. Now it would you considered Constantine horror? No, I haven't seen Constantine. I would consider it a comic book movie. Yeah, it is, but yeah, it has very similar themes to has like expercism, movie though it is. But okay, you can have multiple genres going on. The things happens to be a character that that does those things. But I mean, I've watched it just happens super happens to be in a horror movie. Yeah, what I mean? I kind of feel the same way about alien, which is my favorite film the whole time. So I'd say with Constantine, like the TV shows, more in the super a natural horror kind of genre than the movie would be. What about supernatural? The show? So I watched the heck out of that. Now you're going to have to talk to me about that, because that's when I'm kind of waiting to watch until it finishes, because there's eight thousand seasons, honestly. So here's my brief opinion on supernatural. It was awesome and then they clearly intended to end after the fifth season, and so then after that it got really bad. We're on like season fifteen now, though, right. No, wow, I know, the villains the the main so it was like it kind of alternates between there's a lot of episodic stuff, but there's also these big overarching plots with...

...their family and supernatural stuff that's going on the the after the fifth season it was clearly at meant to end and then like six and seven, the villains were these fish people things that were just not scary or terrifying or interesting, and apparently it got better and like they they made it more interesting. I was gonna say it's it's a roller coaster ride. Yeah, but the first five seasons are really good. I mostly got interested because they did a Scoobydoo episode. Yes, think they absolutely did a lot. They do a lot of well, they do a lot of horror reference stuff. Yeah, the SCOOBYDOO episode, they actually go into the animated series and turn it into an actual horror that's perfect. Yeah, that's pretty great. And they also had a really interesting Meta episode where I like there's like a different dimension where I don't remem if it was differentmagure. I remember exactly what the plot but it's basically similar to the Star Trek one where he's the writer, one of the main angel guys who is absolutely hilarious in the show. He's like writing the supernatural show and then somehow one of the killers in the show comes into the onto the set and starts killing people in the set. It was is actually really good episode, but but yeah, it's like two thousand and ten. I understand why it's still going. It's making money as a but yeah, that was definitely horror. I do believe it is this year. Maybe, maybe I'll go back in and rewatch the rest of the seven seasons. I haven't watched. What the heck? I watched eight seasons of the show and there's still a hundred episodes. Well, let's see, there's still what two hundred episodes? I haven't seen. Its ridiculous. Wow, yeah, I don't. I don't want. I don't feel good about that. All right, so let's talk about these movies. Yes, movie. So. So do we want to talk about the movies, or do you want to go to shop the subgenres in the bring those movies up as we go, or do you want to just talk about those three movies and then jump into subgenres? Well, we know, we got four movies here for and for movies. Yeah, and I kind of like to go chronologically because I think I think you can see like the evolution of the genre as we do that. So okay. So to start, I just just for your your broad overview. The movies that we watch this week were Zombie horror. I chose out of living dead, nineteen sixty eight, horror comedy, which is Dark Star, nineteen seventy four, Halloween, which is one thousand, nineteen seventy eight, classic slasher. I would argue that that was the first true yeah, Lash here, yeah, as well, and then silence of the lambs, nineteen n one. So let's get started with not a living dead. So had you guys seen after the living dead before? I saw the day of the dead remake with thing rams got it okay, which is okay. Never seen it, but I think I have liked the best out of a three. I thought it was a solid movie, although them what a bummer of an ending. I know we're gonna know spoilers, but it was well, that will spoil it. It's a nice spoil it quite UN years. Yes, Jason, what did you think was gonna say? I enjoyed it quite a bit. Yeah, I found I just like the evolution of what zombies are period. Yeah, it's like, because you had to understand, like this is this, it's essentially it claims to be like the first kind of apparently the idea of zombies had existed before this movie. It's not the first, sure, yeah, but but zombies, walking dead people. Well knows, zombies had typically been like a Voodoo thing where right someone gets cursed and they're in this state where whoever curse them has control over them and it have some of the traits of zombies. But this was really the first thing where zombies were these reanimated dead bodies that transmit the whatever, whatever it is. But I'm killing people. Yeah, so it's almost like when somebody would die, that they would join the horde and and eating the flesh, which that always never made sense to me because, like, okay, you bite someone and they become a Zombie. You eat someone, do their little, do their bits, become a Zombie. That's A and and and why is there no Zombie on Zombie cannibalism? Because, okay, so, so the net energy, the brain has to function the body. Yes, so, so it's the brain is not functioning. You cut the arm off of a Zombie, the army zombies arm, presumably, at least for my knowledge, would would be limp, but it depend depends on which side the movie around the brain. You know, you'd still be working. However, it is a good point that, like, once somebody's bit and they turn into a Zombie, it's like, how are those people not just eating completely, like how is it always like they get bitten in like the zombies take right and I think, I think the little girl, yeah, in the movie tway girl, right, she got bit, but they got way right. If I just pull out a little bit of biology here, and this is not this, this is not just this Zombie movie, this is like all Zombie movies have kind of this issue is really thin. No, okay, let's all because the first of all, so I walking dead. I watched the first episode and the first half of the second episode. Then I fell asleep and I was like, a can't, this shows so boring. It's as I had did you make a Zombie apopocaps apocalypse? Boring? It Bible unch sheerly because it's Zambi apocalypse. Yes, like this is some of the worst acting...

I've ever seen. It's so boring. But okay, so, so the first thing you see is he gets out of hospital and he's going through the city and there's a tank and I'm like, okay, how do zombies beat a tank? This is something that doesn't make sense. Is If you're spreading through salivas live, it is a garbage disease vector, just a really garbage disease vector. So if you're only spreading through bite, first of all they're slow moving. Second of all, their corpses, so they're going to decay. It takes like a couple days and your flesh is falling off. Thirdly, Second Amendment. At least in the south you're not having a Zombie uprising in the south and my Hannah, there are no zombies. Like if they just gave like a map, like if there was ever like a news station for Zombie uprising. It would just feel like we're like the most effective areas, like the whole entit like Texas, just like Nol zero. Yes, the are breaks. There were a couple and then my work I zero offbreaks, waoming, zero outbreaks, Midwest zero outbreaks. There's like one outbreak in California because they were like Oh, it's we can't kill the zombies people too, and that's much what you're saying, and I'm saying is well, that being set in Atlanta is unrealistic, little bit, little bit, just the idea that that you could get this kind of unstoppable force. It just doesn't. That's always bothered me. If it was an airborne disease and yeah, but then it's like hiding doesn't help you. But that's what I found. This one is moving pretty interesting because it contrasts what we're like. We're kind of used to Zombie like what exorbitant watching Zombie movies in like this hugely like what is it? It's a world wars. He's at with the movies called yea, where it's like it was a book first. Yeah, and I mean and it's taking place during these Zombie apocalyps you have all of like the resident evils, like a hundred, and it's more about yeah, but you put this movie actually talked about that. The whole point was they that when they didn't understand what it was, that's when it was spreading. But as soon as they figured out what it was, they rallied and they're like we're just going to wipe everything out, and they did it. So so I thought that was probably the best treatment of a Zombie Apocalypse I've seen in a movie, because most of the other apocalypse is it's just like taken as given. This is just this is likely. You could appreciate it at the time to where it's like people that don't understand like the idea of a Zombie are getting the information, as the people in the house are getting the information, yeah, on these little, yeah, news stations from like the radio, and they're getting little bits of information, and I could just imagine as if you were feeling like you're locked in that house with these people and feeling like that fear that they're having and getting little bits of information here and there to try to understand, as opposed to watching it now I'm just like all right, well, there zombies. Guys, like you're going to realize that you shoot him in the head and they're dead, but like like kind of appreciating that this was kind of the first versus Zombie. Yeah, and and again, I think they did a g I think I thought the movie did a really good job of dealing with Oh no, once people figure out that all you have to shoot him in the head, there they end the apocalypse, and it did. It's like, you gotta shoot him in the head and the you gotta bring the body. It was it didn't waste any time either. It was just like hey, we're like, we're here visiting our dead grandma and there's a Zombie. Yeah, and it's yeah, brother, the person away and you get stuck in a house and it's like all that happens in like five minutes. Now. Then the middle did plot a little bit, but I thought and I saw I was watching something that was complaining about how the the girl, I don't remember any of the characters names, Barbara, Barbara. How Barbara was kind of, you know, a dead fish the whole time. But I thought you'd really like she's clearly just in shock and incapable of doing anything right. So I think that was realistic and they try to play like the cheese part Zombie, right, yeah, like she I would even say that she's part Zombie, but like she's so she's just in shock. Yeah, she's in such shock and she's so scared, like she's basically she's practically catatonic. Yeah, yeah, and there's those scenes where, like, like the the girl likes the match and she kind of backs off a little bit, and so ways are thinking, did she get bit and likes she having yet this likes this like sensitivity towards the flame, and there was even some mystery for me. Who here we are whatever. However, many years later and there's still some some value there for yeah, you were so so I enjoyed it. Yeah, I thought it was really well crafted. I thought that, you know, the people acted intelligently, which is something that you sometimes see more movies. People Act the dumbest way possible to get the best kill. So they were intelligent. They're like boarding and they do you know, they had arguments about what's the best thing to do. The two people who grew up in the truck. How do you not? How are you that that at fueling your truck? Bro, like that was on you. Yeah, Jason, do you have thoughts on that? I was gonna say my expect like it did subvert my expectations a few times. Like I was thinking, which is interesting because this was like the first one. Yeah, I was thinking the escape at the end one, that they would escape at the end and that it would basically be what they'd set up. They talked about the car not being far away. Her brother had the keys. My expectation was for him to show back up her to be psychologically freaked out by the fact that he's a Zombie, but then they get the keys and, you know, run away. But there were quite a few times, and you know, the thing with them playing with her is potentially a Zombie was pretty cool too. Yeah, that was something I'd never really thought about before and I've seen the film a few times. So good...

...color. I did have a couple of notes on here, I think. First of all, this is a film in black and white. If you want to watch it in color, there is a colorized version for free right now. I think we can white adds to the mystique and right round it. Well, yeah, and I because George Romero plays a lot with light and shadow and I think that is really important to this film, because you what makes it scary as you go always get a good look at everything, so you don't know what's coming yet. She said for Naked Butt Zombie, except so I'm gonna talk about naked but Zombie, which we actually round were like wait, is that was? That is a naked Zombie. And Yeah, so we're I'M gonna make a note to talk about that later when we come back around a horror satire. So we also had had a slinky, wacky, wavy inflatable test. There's there's one scene later on that like the intestines were like really good. Yeah, it's one seen the second time we've seen makeup Butt Zombie and they can put Zombie suddenly really, really dirty. But everyone's closing in on the House and there's one guy, there's one Zombie who has like this little piece of intestine and he's just doing this. It's like, I'm sorry, Guy, what are you doing? He's like wiggling it back and all right, someone didn't give that guy the best dire actually, but that's the thing. Like these are like the first, these are the first people being told acts like zombies. Yeah, like the like it's been so morphed to where now you watch, like, regardless of how bad the walking dead is, it's pretty trash, but like you look at how ridiculous the zombies look. I mean there's like that's pretty much what the whole show is about, is like how crazy good can we make our makeup artist and make these robotic zombies and like and they're so intense. And then here you have the first look at zombies and it's prety much just a guy with some like paint on his face and he's like playing with the Yo Yo and it's like they just see where it starts and where it gets to. It's so interesting because for them at the time it's not like they had this idea of like, oh, it's got to look like what the walking dead looks like now. For them, like that was zombies, like it's they were did a perfectly good job of doing it, because also that that first Zombie looked like he was from the Adams family. Oh Yeah, yeah, he did look like like he wasn't Zombie. He'd be creepy dude. He looked like lurks. Yeah, well, so, and one of the things that I so I think the true horror of not the living dead, is not the zombies. Is What happens to been. Yes, hundred percent. So if you've never watched night of the living dead, pause, go watch this. So watch it. It's our and a half or so, but like this spoiler alert. So Duyanne Jones, who's who plays been, who was fantastic. He's amazing. So some background about his casting. When George Romero did the casting call, he didn't have a person of color in mind or, if anyone of any particular race in mind. He just chose the best actor and that ended up being dwayne Jones, who is massive. Yeah, so tall that I know. That is like, dude, it's really, really tall. The fact that you just his right and being a black man creates a whole other layer of tension within the film between him and the Guy who was hiding out in the basement. I'm blinking on his name right now, all but him. And then at the end he, you know, abandons the last one standing and he gets shot because they see, you know, the the the militia, just see somebody moving in the house. They don't take the time to find out is it a human or is it a Zombie and they just shoot him right in between the eyes. And then the thing that kills me is if you watch the credits, as the credits are rolling, you see them the body thrown on the feudal fires, stills of how they drag back and then using freaking meat hooks. Yeah, I don't want to touch the body. Yeah, I that to me was like the most disturbing, heartbreaking thing about this film. Is Leo. You just you create like a whole other layer of discussion because the lead is a black man, and how he was killed. So I ad for that to be one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight. That's huge. Yeah, that is. I mean that is a that is a big deal and it's worth discussing. Last year, two years ago, I got to be part of Myth Guard movie club discussion. That's on Youtube. If you guys want to go watch, look that up. But we talked about that living dead. So yeah, just and that's that's one thing that we touched on for and he, Romero, made like twelve more right something. See A few sequels, I've only seen and the like. Plans on apes name to dead. I think that's the whichever one is in the mall. I've seen that one, believe, that's Day of the day. Day of the day. Excuse me, yes, I've seen that one. I think one of the things, again, that makes it even more horrifying just watching it today, is we're so desensitized to like the Zombie thing, because that's a bally as genre inter of itself. Absolutely, yeah. And so where some of that war aspect is lost on us, that ending, that kind of visceral ending there and then the you know, credits afterwards are, you know, okay, that's not something we were expecting. Right, right, even in like the idea of making them like you could have just continued the movie on to show them take...

...him out like the way that they did, to the fire, and to choose to do it in a way that almost seemed like these are it almost seemed like a documentary at that point. It was almost like, yeah, and this is what happened to the guy, and these are pictures of like like what happened after that, and it's like like movies that make it distinct purposeful choice to do that stuff. I always pay attention to why they're doing it. Right, yeah, and I feel like it adds so much to where your point and I didn't view it the first time this way, but it that really is I mean the whole thing, that's where the horror lies, is right there. It's the idea that, like the zombies were, we're menacing and they were a little creepy, but in reality was the tension that was building between people evening the House. It was the arguments that were happening that it seemed so close at times to one person betraying the other one letting him die for their own sake, and they going back and forth until till finally they're all essentially working together, but they all die off until it's just the one guy left and then it's more people, you know, unintentionally, but they just walked through and kill them and it's it's just it's just such a an interesting way to set up a movie. Your story also when I thought the second most shocking moment in the movie, other than Ben's death, is when angry man gets the gun away from from Ben and they wrestle over it and then gets it back and then just shoots him. Yeah, and it's like I'm done, I'm done dealing with you. Yeah, yeah, there's a couple chances where, like first is what he eat, like locked him out, essentially. Then he gets back in. Yeah, they deal of the doors and then he beats the crap out of a Ben just punches the back out of them a bunch of times. And then, yeah, like after he gets the gun back, it's just like, I'm you're done, you have your saying, I shoots them. Yeah, all right. So Romero had six, six film stretching to two thousand and nine was I mean he only got just a couple and they're very planet of the APEC's neither the living dead, dawn of the dead, day of the dead, land of the dead, diary of the dead and survival of the dead. Survival of the dead was Oh nine. Wow. What if that one sees he's oldest in his news? Would be interesting. Yeah, so do you guys have further thoughts? I'm not of the living dead. I'm going to make a couple other recommendations within the Zombie or genre, but if you guys have anything else you want to talk about, I have for the thoughts about zombies and I thought it was great movie. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, we were set, we were mentioning all the all the filming, the film stuff. They clearly like put a box around the camera they were using and just filmed. Yeah, some of the effects were, we're kind of Hilarious, but I thought the Gore was really the was like yeah, it's still looks good. Yeah, yeah, practical effects. Baby can't eat him. And that's one of the things with with, with a lot of horror movies, is the practical effects they've done are a who horrifying and be the really get it, really creative yestuff. Yeah, we didn't have the access to kind of fill in the gaps that even nowadays. Even nowadays, the stuff they do to get practical shots, it's really cool. Yeah, because it's so much harder. It really is so much harder, and it's not to just totally you know, crap all over digital art, I mean digital art is amazing. You get some people that spend a ton of time and make stuff look incredible, but it's just so much easier than practical stuff and so back and they won't have the access to and you are forced to use the practical stuff. It not only usually looks better, but you can appreciate it more because you're like wow, this person really like if the scene had to be redone, they had to find a new arm and it's how long. I might get a little weird. I think the reason, one of the big reasons, that practical effects look so much better is because fluids are really hard to model realistically. So, like the blood spraying, it's very obvious when that's not real because it looks off. And so when they have just like a pose and it's just spurting you know, red gatorade everywhere, it looks much more real. Even if you're like no one has that much blood in their entire body, you're so like, well, it's but is moving in a realistic way, like it was sprang out of something. So so I think if for fluids and particles practical effects, it will it'll be a very long time, I think, for CGI can commitment that sort of random pattern in a realistic way. But, but, but, as far as zombies, I'm just thinking of Zombieland. Zombie land is wonderful, such a good movie. It's a great film, all right. So would you consider that horror comedy? I would call that horror comedy. I would also maybe kind of sledge end under horror satires. Yeah, well, zombies have been done to death so that like they I feel like a lot of theirs, a lot of their scariness has kind of been they become the sort of just plot device now. But I thought one of the more interesting takes on it was I Zombie. I have not seen that, but I know stark it was pretty decent. It was a little little kitchy, but the the the plot is this girl becomes a Zombie and when she eats a brain she absorbs the memories of that person. So she goes to work for the police and works in like the corners office and they always have this thing where she's like preparing the food, almost Hannibal esque. The problem is the brain they use is like pink. Yeah, like, have you ever seen a brain? It's gray. It's like sludgy, Gray, nasty. It's not gummy and pink. It looks like bubble gum. Right, all right. So,...

...if you want to watch more Zombie horror, if you want to watch the very first Zombie movie, one thousand nine hundred and thirty two is White Zombie is the first one. It's not a band. White Zombie is a drink. Yes, say, it is also a beer from Kataba ruined company. If you like White Aale, it's a it's a good one. If you want your if you prefer your zombies fast as opposed to slow. I Review Twenty eight days later. HMMM, are they? Are they technically dead in that one? I mean, I realize, I realize it. For All intensive purposes, is the Zombie Film. But are those actually corpses in that one, or are they just infected? You know, I've only seen it once. It was about ten years ago, so I couldn't tell you, but I remember like it. And then, if you want more of these Zombie Voodoo, I recommend west Kurriven's the serpent in the rainbow. I could see that a couple years ago. Was Pretty interesting. When you make that want to say it's ninety three, something like that. But yeah, the serpent in the rainbow. You guys ready to talk about horror comedy? It's no way. We didn't. Dark Star. Next, dark star. Yes, one thousand nine hundred and seventy four. So if you are unfamiliar with Dark Star, this is a film by John Carpenter and Dan o'bannett. Well, it was a trip. Yeah, yeah, Yep, and I chose this one for a couple of reasons. One, John Carpenter is my favorite horror director. To Dan o'bannon, took this script and rewrote it into alien, which is my favorite film of all time. So I think dark star is interesting because it did start out as a student film and when it had a wider vary, when it had effects are out of this world space movie. What I enjoy about it the the film. When it was it would have got a wider release. People didn't know what to do with it. So I think this film is in an important lesson in genre matters, because people did not reck, could not figure out is this a horror movie or is this a comedy, and so they couldn't figure out whether to laugh or cry and therefore did not know what to do with the movie and it did not do well because of that. So if you watch the borrowed the DVD from Netflix, because I still get those, and if you watch the DVD, there is a star wars style scroll that rolls before the movie and it basically says this is a horror comedy, it's okay to laugh and gives the backstory on that. So tell me what you guys thought about dark store. First of all, why would you give your bombs intelligence? That was just they were asking. They're asking to spoil or get blown up. Yeah, smart bombs. You don't need your bombs to be able to think. It doesn't need to have independent thought. That so fast. It was definitely like out there for me well, because I was definitely in that in that same boat of being like it's it's almost being funny and like I definitely laughed a few times, but it was like it was almost like if you just pushed it a little further, be hilarious and then it would just all of a sudden take like a kind of odd not serious, because like the whole movie is is kind of ridiculous, but like just a turn that wasn't funny and you're it's like you're almost like it's just it's a little off. The whole movie kind of felt like they should have just played it as a comedy, I guess. Yeah, I think. I think so, just because the premise of the idea that like hey, here's this group of people who shoot these bombs at planets or stars and are dying stars. What are they do to blow them up? These huge bombs and these are intelligent, you know, artificial, intelligent bombs, and one of them malfunctions and starts to think like hey, why should I go and blow up? Why should I leave the shit like that's kind of a funny premise, and so it's like yeah, you could probably build a dcent comedy around that. But this was almost like it took so many tours away from that, where was like the pizza box, you know, Beach Ball Alien. That thing was hilarious because it was creepy when it first starts like attacking the guy's got these alien feet and it's just I was fully expecting him to die. It's a beach ball with alien feet and there's this agonizingly long like like chase between the question where they just like, and this is the point of the movie that I laughed the hardest, was when he was like in the elevator shaft, like, I guess, hanging on the edge and this beach balls like attacking him. So I think this is where it tilts between horror and comedy, where I was like, Oh, this is clear was more intending to be a comedy. Was He stuck and it's going to explode? I'm like, Oh, they're going to find half of the dude in the elevator and he just walks out with it like a skirt, with his hair cartoonishly black and very like. Okay, it's definitely a comedy, but what I found most hilarious about that was, you know, typically, if if you using a beach ball, it's still like a living creature, but no, it was just straight up a beach ball, because he shoots it with a tranquilsher Dart and just POPs it right. Probably my favorite one literally just it just moves off like well, whatever it's moves all right. There's a scene where they go into like one of like the bedrooms, I guess it is, with like the bum and you it just like as soon as I saw that, I'm like, this is a student because like for sure this is one of their dorms and there's like a couple of bunk beds and they're all sitting around just like doing standard like college guy things. Nice finger that came back in a yeah,...

...like they're just doing these like little silly things sitting in a room and you're and you're filming it for a little while and I'm like this is legit. Just like like all project either is. But but having seen alien, you can easily see what he took right, you know, claustrophobic space cry asleep, just that. The General Chase. Yeah, generally chake, the generally chased events, the the dinner scene, the dinner scene, the suspense, the knife finger. Some of the shots were very similar to especially like crawl or even the idea that there's a sentient robot that has a large role to play on rights, is called mother as well. Yeah, and they ultimately becomes the main villain right the movie, like not even the alien. You find out it's the little robot guy. That's whatever. If I remember, only they had brought back the smart bombs. What a solve a lot of problems. Still blow up the planet. The aliens are on boom being banked done. I think that one of the other things that I think is interesting about this films. It was released in one thousand nine hundred and seventy four. This is pre star wars. So anything didn't we see that a couple of times. Was it was? I asking? Yeah, it was Pretty Star Wars. Yes, this Prestar wars, a star wars. It was seventy seven and this is seventy four. So space films at the time or considered very, very at Halloween. Ok Yeah, telloween was seventy eight. Okay, anything in space was still considered very, very niche. You're not going to see a ton of things in space and that's kind of more limited to TV, because Star Trek. So I thought that was interesting about it to think about it within that context. Now, watching dark star, I think it's funny if you think of it more as a satire of alien, HMM, and so. And that was the reverse satire, reverse satire of alien and so, because that was how I came to it. I'd seen alien first several times and then I watched this. Is like, okay, I get it, but you know, because of how the order in which I watched them, HMM, it made it funnier to me. Yeah, and you did not have that benefit if you were watching it in one thousand nine hundred and seventy four. What do you what else do you guys think? I don't know. It was wild to watch this that I had. Yeah, I have the least like just because, like what interests me the most and what will probably be able to like talk about the most is like it's more on the film side and as far as like the filming aspect, that was, you know, definitely like, yeah, you can learn thing you do from those practical effects, like a pizza box, like move slowly into the screen, as essentially, but as like as like the spaceship, like the black background and then it stops and then it zooms. It's like, you know that when they turned the shield on me. Just like think it was fun in the context of the way I was watching and enjoyed I watch. It was definitely one where it was just it was just enjoyable to watch because it's like they had clearly working with a paper thin budget and they're they're they still managed to make a movie. Right. I want to say the number. I read this tepping. It was like six thousand bucks. Yeah, it was. It was a budget film and all their budget went into those wonky space ships, spaces but I enjoyed it. Was it was silly. Yeah, yeah, and I think just a couple of other notes, just because I'm a big John Carpenter Fan. John Carpenter is very intertextual, so he likes to reuse actors. So the Alien Beach Ball, which I kept thinking of the line from your and me one. Mr Grinch, you're a your hearts are dead tomato spotch with Muldy porporal spots. That's looks like in my head. It's like a big multi tomato with feet. But the beach ball was played by Nick Castle, who is the shape in Halloween. He's Michael Myers. I thought that was interesting. Also, you kind of get you kind of get a little flavor for John Carpenter's directorial style. He still does a lot of interesting camera work. He does a lot of stuff with shadow. He in lighting and John Carpenter often writes the music for his films, and so he actually did the the the Benson Arizona actually wrote that song. Yeah, well, flies into the plan, does the end right, right. So, so, yeah, you get these these kind of hallmarks of a John Carpenter film. You know, before he was quote unquote, John Carpenter. You know, I thought that I just from a fan perspective. I thought that was really interesting. Also, you get a lot of focus on visual storytelling. There's not a lot of dialog and John Carpenter does that with his films a lot. Any other thoughts about dark star before I give my recommendations for horror comedy? No, but I do. You have a recommendation for horror comedy that I know you haven't seen? Okay, go for it. No. Tucker Dale versus evil, yes, that one's on my list, but I have not seen any his chest since Alan Tuddick or to Dick or too dike or what. However, you say that. Have you guess seeing the visit? No night, SHA'm on. Yeah, but that's awesome. I do like in my shell on, but I'm just gonna play. I'm just gonna play short the record clip from Tuckerndale versus evil. So you guys can get, just get a feel for we've had a doozy of a day, a real doozy. There we were, Yep, my own business, Yep, Baker's improvements, to my new house,...

...the new house, when all of a sudden, out of nowhere, these kids started killing themselves all over my property. Appear at this one right here. He dove head first right into the wood chipper. So as as it's so funny and it's clearly like it's a slasher, but you know what's actually you know what's happening, and so it's a slasher built on misunderstanding of these stupid college kids thinking that Tuckerndale are murderers, but they're really they're literally out there to fix up their cabin and and as a point when they find out that all these kids have been dying, and I tellex character is like, what am I supposed to do? Just tell the coup? Oh Yeah, sure, Mister Officer. Here we were minding our own business when these kids just came and started killing themselves over poverty and that he couldn't think of anything to say. It actually says to the counts just it's a terrible it is very gory, but it is so stinking funny. I highly recommend it, and and Zombieland as well for context. In that clip they are carrying like, Oh yeah, they're carrying about the half of person who dove into the woodship are on it. It's like drop the legs. It's very funny. One other note about dark star that I think is important. Dan o'bannon said after, you know, Dark Stars for reception. He said about rewriting the script into alien. If I can't make them laugh, then maybe I can make them scream, so which he did a pretty Ding Dang good job. So recommendations all happen. Recommendations if you want to watch some horror comedies. Ready or not, that came out last year was pretty great. That's the one where they have to like, Oh, do you want me to not spoil it? It basically, I mean it's all in the trailer, so it's not really a spoiler. But yeah, like someone gets someone married into a rich family and they have this thing where they play games and it's hide andseek. It's a good families of board game empire. Yeah, but they have to play hide INSEEK and basically the bride has to survive the night. So yeah, so ready or not is really great. slither by James Gunn yeah, that one's really fun. That's got Nathan Phillion. Was the banks really funny movie. If you if you are a walking dead fan, I know Greg and that they go kind of poopooed on walking dead, but if you are walking dead fan, Michael Worker isn't it as well. Might Have Poo pooed on it, but watched all of it. I got so bored. The acting is really bad, but I mean it's ISOMBI apocalypse. I can you enjoy that. You guys have a head. That sing more worrying. Also the whole tank thing. We're moving up. Yeah, but the other one I would recommend would be Joss whedon's original buffy, the vampire slayer. Hmm, I think it's underwritten. I think it's really funny. Well, I also say not movies wise, but if you were looking for a good parody or good horror comedy, the TV show psych doesn't excellent job. They nicely do one more season where they the seventeen. Yeah, do all community also had some good Halloween apsolude. They did Scooby Doo, excellent horror comedy. I love s high. It's not not the movie, Live Action Movie, or any the new stuff, the old scrolling wheel, Hannah barbera couldn't afford their shoes. The classic goes. No, I love Scooby Dooo. All Right, so the next movie watched was Halloween. Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo dooo, Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo Doodoo, which I've heard that riff a lot of time before I realize it was from Halloween. Oh Really? Yeah, yeah, vines of all things. Just it has such a great, great score, also written by John Carpenter, but if you watch the credits you will see it's credited to the Bowling Green Symphonic Orchestra. The Bowling Green Symphonic Orchestra is John Carpenter from Bowling Greenk. He is in fact from Bowling Green. But the that's too hard of a soundtrack. Yeah, I don't know. It's in five four time, which is not very common. Well, if for sure, it's iconic now, and now he's a genius. But I'm saying at the time, as far as like, you hear it and you just like, Oh, this is just essentially like a few chords displaying yeah, over and over. It's really the base underlay that you like. It just it builds. Especially it's really fun to watch that one in a theater because the music is louder and louder and it's all around you. So full disclosure. Halloween is my favorite horror film ever. Okay, you might not like what I have to say about Oh it's okay. We'll fight later but, like I said, you're entitled to your opinion, even if it's wrong. There's so much that I love about Halloween. It dethroned psycho as my favorite horror film ever, recently I realize that when somebody has to like people getting stabbed, Huh, I mean knives. It's not that I particularly enjoy people getting stabbed with kitchen knives. It is the monster and shadow is my favorite kind of horror film and I think psycho did it, did it first and did it really well, and John Carpenter is a baby hitchcock fan, and I mean that shows in all of his work. So how did you feel about bird box, where the monsters its own shadow, you literally can't see them? I haven't actually seen bread box so because I don't know, I don't like to bandwagon, but I do...

...like Sandra Bol look a lot, so I will watch it eventually. It was so so Halloween an alien. I had the same feeling about them. I think they were good movies and I see how they were instrumental in what they did, but I think I would it would have been better if I saw them before I knew anything about them, because both in Halloween and an alien there's a lot the the there's a big portion where not a lot happens right, and because I know what's supposed to happen, I'm just like waiting for that to happen. So this middle part is not appealing to me. Get it. And so to me the move both both Halloween an alien plot a little bit in the in the beginning part before you get to the good stuff, and the good stuff is really good, but it just takes too long to get there. And and if I was going in blind, I think I wouldn't. It wouldn't bother me. But because I know that the aliens supposed to show up and start eating people, because I know Michael Myers is supposed to start killing people, when it's not happening and I'm just waiting, sitting there waiting for it to happen, it makes the middle part feel really long. So yeah, I mean, obviously there are certain like I just I really appreciate watching like original movies of a certain like like being, like you said, probably like the first classic slasher. It's like you catch on all these these huge kind of like these things that have been made fun of at this point, you know, like in the horror genre, like people being stupid and and and just kind of just like the way that horror movies develop and it being like somewhat of a pioneer of this style of doing things. You know, it allows you to watch the little with a little bit of like e's because because again, of course, the whole time you're like, Hey, this person's stupid, like why aren't they just looking for the one car that the guy still the whole time you two around in the cars parked behind you. Halfway through the movie, you're like they didn't put out with a P or ownything. And but then you're just like, you know, this is, this is, this is kind of like the first one in the jot. Like that gets made fun of you twenty, thirty, forty years down the road, when it's like okay, you keep using this same kind of idea where everybody's super, super dumb. At the time they needed that to create the suspense of the story that they needed to create that. That wasn't what the movie was about. What I really liked and I thought was interesting was the usage of and this is where, as a film person, I can watch a movie like this and just really sink my teeth into it. It's just all the little things that they're doing to push their movie along, like even just just in the audio editing itself. I mean, and this is something that that horror movie still do to this day. And you know, I don't know if this is the first one to do it or it's right around the time where they started paying into doing stuff like this, but things like dialog in that movie are turned way, way, way, way down, and the whole purpose of that is the people turn their TV's up and they like, okay, what are they saying? Well, they say what all they're saying, and then sound effects come in and it's like the music kicks in or all of a sudden, what's his face, you know, comes in and stab somebody and everything's heightened. The screams are heightened, but every time somebody talks, it's like it sounds like they're down the street. And then so at first you're sitting there like like who put this together, but then it's getting you to do exactly what the movie wants you to do, and it's doing it in a really creative way, which is exactly what me Nathaniel that was. We cranked the volume up and then the next time somebody died, we were like that I stopped that. I'm like, good on you, movie, yeah, well done. Here I am, however, many years later, and you're still getting. One of the things I found really interesting. It's just the way that it was shot. A lot of the times it just felt like you were looking over your shoulder, you're looking over somebody else's should, which kind of added to the Super Priss that that's. That's a signature John Carpenter thing. Oh, and and those are things again, from a filming perspective. You got to look at it like at least the era of time where you were pioneering stuff like that, because there were shots left for. I mean like kind of excruciating shots where you're like, okay, they are like twelve houses down and we're still just watching them. But you're do it's exactly what you said it's to and it starts to movie off that way with with a pov camera right, which is, I believe, one of the first time it's that that ever been done, if I'm not mistaken. Say, I don't know for certain, but that sounds right. Yeah, it's it was. Is One of these these things where it's like you don't even realize it's Pov at the beginning of it. You're kind of just moving around as the camera and I and even as if you are now, which were we have plenty of technology to moving around cameras as much as we want. We want to create long shots. That kind of just speaks to more just just a higher level of difficulty. When you can create a longer shot and it's increats more realism. And so it does this right off the bat. It's really long cut where it's it eats a pov where you're moving around the house and then you eventually make it into the house and this one you don't know who you are right right as somebody's never seen before. I just assumed this point I was already the big bag slasher. And in reality it cuts back at the end and spoiler, it's a little kid right he kills his sister and and it keeps that theme the whole time to work. What you get those long, extended shots, even though it hasn't been doing pov. You start to feel like you're Michael Myers sitting there around the corner watching these girls walk twelve houses down right and you're like all right, like I'm starting to get sucked into it a little bit, even though the first few times so like, why are we still on the shot? Can't hear anybody? There's no sound effect that you're just you're just sitting here watching these you know, these kids.

But then you're like, okay, I'm sitting here watching these kids, like, Um, there an explanation as to why Michael Hooked on to Lorie for that come later. So I two years ago and Magnolian move which is a academic conference my Grad School, Signal University, hosted in Charlotte, I actually did a presentation on the nature of cannon in the Halloween series. So I have watched like five timeline. Yeah, yeah, it's so really my question is which there's a really great flow chart that Paste magazine put out. It is like, so, how do you like your Halloween? And basically you start with the original movie, Rob Zombie, right, right, Rob Zombie is its own category, it's its own section of the diagram. But like, and it's not even connected to any the other flow charts, but it's like one, two, three, and then it's one to resurrection h twenty, yeah, actually, and then it's one to the new one. So so. So some background. John Carpenter did not want to do any see wuels to Halloween. What he wanted to do was to create like an anthology film series, which is why the third one is that right, right. So the studio pushed him to do too, and so he did too. But then three. He wasn't actually really involved with three, but it was more of his original vision of doing like a an anthology series titled Halloween, and all of the film's occur at Halloween, but did not necessarily have anything to do with Michael Myers or Loris rode. And the third one was about and now I know all this because I watch a youtube channel that counts kills, so I actually know like the plots of all of these horror movies, right, and who dies? But the third one is like a toy manufacturing company is giving out masks that turn kids into bugs. It will basically, basically it's supposed to be a sets Sam Sam whine Ers, Sam Waite, or however you say it's. So. When I sat one I've heard a few different pronunciations, but the it's supposed to. It's effectively a ritual and it's these are ritualistic sacrifices, and so all the kids wearing these halloween masks are part of the sacrifice. They they did so. So to answer that question, it depends on which version of Halloween that you ascribe to, because Lori's related to him. In one of them, right in into it's revealed that Lori is actually his sister, and so he'd basically he's after trying to kill his other sister. If you go watch the two thousand and eighteen halloween, that's like I love the original. I really love Halloween to but I think the only one I love as much as the original is the one that came out in two thousand and eighteen halloween, forty years later, and the reason why I love that one is because it visually pays omage to every other Halloween film ever made while simultaneously ignoring all their content. I just think that is super interesting, because you don't have to have watched all seven other Halloween films to know to understand anything that's going on in the two thousand and eighteen halloween. There's you get those same kinds of like Pov shots from Michael Myers. You get you can see kids running around in silver shamrock Halloween masks. You've got some of the same shots, like the kill shots are mirrored in some way. Laur and Michael get inverted in different ways and different shots and I just so for me, as I'm a cinematography person, that's fifty percent of the reason I love John Carpenter is a cinematography. The directors of the new Halloween just it was a it was a love letter to John Carpenter, basically, and I just really enjoyed watching everything about it. And he thought, Jason, before we move on, yeah, I'm good. All right, let's move on to silence. Yeah, yeah, and just before we move on, if you do like a serial killer, slashers nightmare on ELM street. But was craven is good. Friday the thirteen is interesting. I can't say what I think about that one without spoiling for you, and I think, I think that one is the the original, at least is the only one I've seen, but I think it's worth watching to think about it, as it's an inversion of a another horror film that I really love. And I'll yeah, I'll leave it at that. But Halloween started a lot of these tropes. Greg said if you're a topless girl you're going to die. So John Carpenter and Deborah Hill did say that they didn't seek out to create that truck. It's just that it happened because these kids the other screwing around and they are very distracted and not paying attention to what's going on around them, and that's why they die. It's not because they're having I think what it is is that serial killer. She's naturally have nipple magnet like compasses, Nippos, so as soon as you free them up they're like bubb all for different reasons. Yeah, all the top of that, and as soon as, as soon, as, as soon as, as soon as you feel the NIP. This is it was teaching us a lesson. Keep the nip covered and you live longer, male and female. Male, and any time someone takes their shirt off, they die. Bob Lost it too, so you know our Pebo. Okay, so silence of the lambs. Good...

...movie, right. Thousand Eight hundred and ninety one fun facts about sounds of the lambs. It is the only horror film to Ever Win Best Picture at the Oscars. It's also important to note that that you're it actually swept the big five categories at the Oscars, which I learned that today. I thought that was really interesting. What are the Big Five? I believe that would be best screenplay, Best Picture, best actor and actress, I think, is the thoserve it say, and then I don't know what the fifth one is, so somebody else will have to help me out with that one. So, signs of lambs, this is for you. Okay, thank you. A senses tank goanest. Try To test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice cannedy. I can't see candy in a store without having yes, none in my head. So what was ever really's first experience with this movie? I was packing up in my sophomore year in college, Getting Ready to go home, and I had I had that time, the Netflix DVD's most just like science the lamb. It's a classic, I'll watch it. So I watched it while I was packing like that was really good. So I actually watched it for the first time. Oh, we would you think? Mind blown? I serve it. We'll get in a little bit. Great. What was your first experience of silence of the lamb? Man, I love suce of the lamb. I tended to break favorite movies, and in best movies in my opinion, into different categories and I've always had subs of the lamb amongst the top. In Dialog most any movie I've seen, just because, I mean and usually when you talk about dialog it's directly relate to acting. It's just like how is he acting? Job Like wasn't delivered well, and so you have this like amazing performance, but by Judeve Aster, or is a Jodi Fos, jodie foster and Anthony Hopkins. There we go. When I first watched it, it was it was after a long time of being really afraid to watch it, like I don't even know the year, but I just remember being like everybody saying this is one of the like he's one of the creepiest people in cinema history, in everything, and I had heard so much about them and I love movie movies and so I was like, all right, Gread, you just gonna have to do it, and and I was and I was. It never really freaked me out, although I thought they did such and I love this movie. Got Lot this. It's a really good yeah, a couple of notes. This is based on a book by Thomas a Hey Paris. It's called Red Dragon, though it's a trilogy of books. Going to say a Red Dragon was the first book, silence of the lamps, the second one Red Dragon. Also, have you seen the movie? No, this is the only one of those I've seen in the in the trilogy. So I might do a hot take right here. So I didn't mean you up in you get hot take and I know this. It's it's a much less acclaimed movie, but I like Red Dragon better. Interests of lamb. Okay. All right, so if you guys are want to check it out the I definitely see why this was up for the best picture nomination. It's just as a film, it's really good. Some of the things I noticed today watching it that I had not noticed previously is that when someone is talking, the focus the camera focuses in on that person and they're the only person in the shot, and the more in depth the conversation gets, the closer you get. Seem intends to gain. Yeah, so this is only my third time seeing the film. I watched it last year for the first time just because I'm like, Oh wow, this is the only horror film to ever win best picture. I kind of want to take a look at that. Deserved it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the things I something that I always wanted to recapt the plot real quickly briefly. We got the plot for anyone who hasn't seen it. Sure, so, got Um. Sorry, I like this very yeah, you go, Judy foster is on a case. She's Jodie foster man. Maybe I shouldn't do this. Yeah, here, let me take a stab out. It just called Starling, Larie Starlett. So she goes up to she goes up to Hannibal Lecter and she's like giving no so actually, if you haven't watched this, this movie, the movies actually not about Hannibal Lecter and what not doing. So, so there's there's a serial killer called Buffalo Bill. He calls himself Buffalo Bill. He's like and getting women in these is a really nasty stuff, and and he's leaving a lot of signs. And so this this young investigator, Clary Starling, goes and thinks it'd be good idea to go and talk to Hannile Lecter to see if he can shed some light on what he might be doing. And virtually everybody tells her she's crazy and it's just amazing. So the majority of the movie is about him giving her advice on how she can find the serial killer. So it's so you're getting two serial killers, both menacing and disgusting in their own way. Hannibal being a Cannibal, in which he eats the people he kills afterwards and he kind of has this pretentious, like I'm better than everybody vibe about him, and this is why he kind of feels the need to be able to kill people. It's not it's not motivated out of him being an inherently crazy like. He doesn't come across because he's very well spoken, he's very calm. This is actually like one of the coolest first scenes when you see him is she's walking down this this aisle of...

...insane murderers and it's getting more and more crazy. The one time, after the next, after the next, she's this next one, in the next one, and they're getting so insane and then she gets the last cell and it's it's Hannibal Lecter and he's standing there all calm and it's Anthony Hopkins and he's super, super mind and he's really respectful and they have his dialog that you're just like like, I just want to sit down and talk to this guy too, and it totally drives you up a being and then and then, and then by the end you know he's breaking and you don't know spot like, spoilers ahead, but he's breaking out and he's eating people and in cutting them open and and you're like, okay, movie, you got me, like, but I mean eating people. What else is there, isn't it? It's incredible movie, and I especially like that because they they always talked about how good of a psychologist he is, and then there's like the one in meat that does something really nasty and it's just like be crazy rude to Clarisse, and then the next time she comes back that inmate is dead and they're like, yeah, he just killed himself. And what happened with Hannah was just whispering to him all night. Yeah, yeah, and that was that is yeah. So something that I thought was interesting about him as a villain is that what makes him scary is not that he eats people. HMM, it's that he he's a psychologist and he gets in your head and that's the scary part. So I one of the things I one of the reasons I think this, this did better at the Oscars than a lot of other horror films do, is that it's more disturbing than horrifying. Yeah, the focus is not necessarily on the Gore, though. There is some really disturbing and disgusting images in this film. It's odd. It's a it's kind of like a iconic psychological horror film, because the the horrors in your head. Yeah, it's very cerebral, unlike a lot of slashers, which, you know. So some slashers would will have some interesting subtext, but you know, if you're just watching a lot of slashers, it's just like, Oh, yeah, you just gonna go chop up some cheerleaders because your nipple radar is going crazy, whereas this one was very much about mind games, right, and about, you know, the the horror of the human condition, because there's no supernatural murderer. It's just crazy, Ye evil people, right. It's not that he's super strong or that he is possessed or anything like that. He's just a downright evil guy and he eats people and that's terrible and he's and he's a genius, which is, yeah, very so smart, because that's what makes me terrified. When you're like, every every scene he's in, he's almost confused, like he's tricking you as a viewer to where you buy the end you're like, Oh, you should go talk to Hannibal again. He probably gives some good advice and you're like like maybe you should be a little more careful. And that's that's the whole tension of the movies building is she keeps wanting to go back to him because he is giving I mean, he's essentially solving this case for and he's slowly kind of asking for a little bit more. He's like just get ask like if they can give me some books after and they can give me some paper to draw thing, you know, and and eventually you're like yeah, you give it to him, give it to immediate and you don't realize in them by the end the movie gets you as like hat, like like you were the one that was full by Hannibal the whole time, because and he pulls this stunt that's like even at the time, like when I watched, I knew was happening and I knew was gonna come, but man, at the time to not have seen him a scene like that where you cut somebody's face off and put it on your face as you're the dead person, like what a ridiculously menacing like moment where you have like him laying there looking like like like dead, yeah, he's look, he's looking like the guard because he's got the guards face on his face and they're like, oh, he's still alive, we need to rush into an ambulance. And then as they start to realize, I think, I think she gets a phone call in the ambulance that they're like, you need to get out right now. And then you see him lift up, like my sits up and in the bed behind her and you know, stabs her with that, with the surgically Gotama too well, and I think like even at the end of the film's going back to what you're speaking about. You get that phone conversation at the end and you're like, as a viewer, just lowed back in again because it's got the cut the crazy back off. Yeah, he's being manipulative again. And and this is why so I want to talk to him about Red Dragon, but he guys haven't seen it, man, you need to see it. The acting lineup one. So Red Dragon is like when they catch him at the end of so Red Dragon, because that leads into so so. So the beginning of Red Dragon is is it's so red dragons is about the detective who caught him right but it's not necessarily about his case. It's about this detective going like on another case. But but he there is a scene that's similar to the silence of the lamb scene and it's my favorite scene in the movie and it's it's the guy from fight club. Now, what's his name, ed nor, Ed Norton. So Ed Norton is the detective and he's sitting there with with Hannibal and he's like, you know, I just thought it might be fun for you to see if you can catch you know, I brought you the case. Just might be fun for you to see if you're smarter...

...than the Guy I'm trying to catch. And the handible goes by implication. Is that mean you're smarter than me? And he's like kind of laughs. He's like no, I know I'm not smarter than you. And he goes, well, how did you catch me? And he's like you disadvantages, and he goes disadvantages. He's a you're a psychopath. What did you say? And it's like it's such a great scene because all of a sudden you end and it goes to and he kind of like stopped and he looks and he it's like it's like it's sinking into him that, no matter how brilliant and talented and smart and the how much the audience can get sucked into that. Like Ed Norton is just like get, you're crazy, like the he's literally like you're insane, or that's what he says. He says you're insane. He's like that's the advantage I had, as it you're insane, and you're like Oh, like we have to keep this in mind. And it's almost like when you play a villain, to have such a good motive, almost like like we can take Thanos as because he's been the kind of the modern day revered villain. Is being like well, you can really sympathize with them, and it's like you can sit but you can't. Obviously he wants to kill. How. Yeah, be the one. I would simply there you go like like you can sympathize with them, but then you're drawn out of that to realize, okay, but dissolution can't be to go like murder everybody then right, like like so and and it's done. I think it does it in this movie and again it's done in Red Dragon, but it's the same deal. It's happening in sounds silence where you know you're getting so drawn into how good I'll gut, like he just seems so good, you know he seems and you want to have conversations because even the way he talks is so intelligent and he's helping you with these things. But then you're like yet you're insane, like you just like it's just like a just just reminding you like like that you think you're better than everybody. You're sitting over here. I think the be the beginning scene in in Red Dragon is him. You know, essentially, not to it isn't going to spoil a movie, but like he he he murders somebody because they were bad in orchestra. Like he loves going to watch this orchestra. There's one player who's bad and then and then he has the orchestra over and feeds them food and like what is this? He's like, you wouldn't believe me if I told you, and you know it's presumably the that the bad player the orchestra. And so he has this kind of sense of superiority over all these people. And to have that scene where Ed Orton's just like you're a psychopath like you're you're insane is like so humbling and I like I loved it so much. It's like stuck it to him and were just like, he's all right, we were an hour and twenty minutes in. So so just just a kind of thoughts. Yeah, silence of the lambs. I think there's an interesting like kind of sub dynamic going on in the film with some of the things that clarice faces as a woman. We're like she walks into the guy who's the main dude at the asylum and he basically like flirts with her and she's like, oh no, we're not here to do that. And then you've got the dynamic of Scotland's character, her micro better terminology commanding officer, where the way that he says he says something like oh well, not, not in front of the lady or whatever. And and and she calls them on it. She's like the men follow your lead. You can't do that to me because they're going to treat me differently, and I you know, if they're going to treat me differently, that that I mean, this isn't going to work. And even later in the helicopter when he says no, you know, we couldn't have done this without you. Nobody's going to forget that, especially not me. And like it seems like she's she's doing like the run of the work. She's getting Hannibal to tell her all these things, but she's not getting the credit for it and I think, I think there's there is a certain dynamic that I identified with as a woman because I've had that happened to me before that I thought it was it was important to see that play out. I also really appreciated the positive portrayal of a southern person, because I'm a southern person and I get exhausted people acting like we don't wear shoes or we don't have all our teeth, and so I'm civilized, and I mean likely such a southern like her accents. So yeah, yeah, and I was so angry when I found out jodie foster is from California. Again. This is this is connor trainaire all over again. Yeah, we said earlier, Zombie apocalypse happens. Hey, you know that want to be in the south, if you want to watch other psychological thrillers, psychological horror films. Psycho is kind of the Pretty Fanta stock. The iconic, classic one, and I would also say the invisible man. The plans came out this year with Elizabeth Moss, Fan Freakin tastic. You ever watch fallen with Denzel Washington? I have not. I have I am really behind on my didn't sell movies, so that one's really interesting. I don't want to spoil the ending because I had it has an amazing ending, but the general plot is Denzel tracks down the serial killer who his calling card was. He would eat cereal with a bunch of sugar in it. It was weird calling card. Anyways, he goes to this guy's execution and the Guy Basically tells him I'm going to be back and the serial killer gets murdered and then a couple day or murdered, he gets he getting they killed, he he gets executed and and...

...then a couple you know, like a week later, someone else gets murdered and get the same calling card is left. So like he's at a copycat killer. What's going on? And it turns out that it's actually, this is not a spoiler because it's revealed pretty early in the movie. It's actually this demon named a Zaizel that can jump from body to body. So it's kind of a supernatural psychological and so it's Denzel trying to figure out how do I beat this demon that can possess anyone, and the reason he latches onto ton Zel is because for some reason he can't possess Denzel. So it's really interesting. It plods a little bit in the middle. It's a little little slow in the middle, but Ho boy, the ending is phenomena. I think John Goodman's in it too, but now the ending is is a ride. John Goodman's fun to watch in a horrible and that came out and like two thousand and six. I want to say, okay, in secret secrety good came out around that time. To which one's secret window, Johnny Dipp Oh, yeah, yeah, it wasn't cooler. Yeah. So, so, before we move on, I really did enjoy the movie, but one of the things I was realizing as I was watching it is just how many things that I've enjoyed that it's actually was like a precursor to like one of the two shows that I've watched a lot of really enjoyed the show criminal minds, which is very much along the same line. But the one that I was really seeing parallels to is. I watched the blacklist with James Spader a while back, which essentially is a female agent. A guy walks in, turns himself in. He's not a cannibal or anything, but he is like a psychopathic for big bad and yeah, actually I think there's an episode really early on where they sent him. He sends her after a cannibalistic serial killer and that's kind of a plot of the show and so I was just like okay, well, yeah, that's seeing where that came from. Yeah, and I've been told the Hannibal TV series is very, very good, but I have not watched it myself, but did to have some it's mad's Michelson. I was about to say is I was it is he mads Michleston or stilen scars going, one of those guys who has a Norwegian double letter name. Yeah, Medism Math Michael, so that he's supposed to be very, very good in that Maddie mixes friends call him. I've got here just a couple other things I just wanted to talk about within the horror genre in general. I've got some film recommendations. I've got a couple of director recommendations but I also kind of wanted to touch on like some of the philosophical questions that horror films just in general make me ask, and I wanted to see what you guys thought about them. I want you hit US real, real quick, just like run down the list for film and direct recommendations, okay, and then we can jump into those briefly. All right, all right. So, if you want to see kids getting scared to death, I recommend a lot of Stephen King's work. So it and I don't care which version you watch. I like both and stand by me. Stand stand by me. It's a whole room. Stand by me. It's based on a Stephen King short story called the body and it's I wouldn't say that it's one hundred percent horror movies excellent, but it's a great film. But there is some definitely scary things in there, like these are for kids going to go fight a dead body, and that's really scary. And then watch anymore. Well, then you've also got key for Sutherland's character, who's Oh I dude, watch a horror movie with for Sutherland Mirrors. I was the I immediately think of the lost boys, which is he was in some I saw some favorites. I saw. It was I don't remember why I watched I think I watched it because keeper Sutlan was in. It was like right out. I was coming right off with twenty four and he's a security guard and there's some haunted mirror in the warehouse he's washing in and his wife gets murdered because she's taking a bath and then in the mirror, her mirror reflection starts like pulling her job part and literally like rips her job part in real life, and then it ends with I think it ends with on a suddenly getting trapped in the mirror. I don't it was pretty Grizzly, as I haven't haven't seen that one supernatural horror, probably two of the best hereditary which came out a couple of years ago, which I'm going to talk a little more about area asters, the director of that film in a minute. And then one thousand nine hundred seventy seven Susperia by oh, that's all. We are crazy. I it made me. The visuals in that film really made me love it. Maybe a big fan of Dorio Argento. Did you watch the remake? Yes, and I hate it, but I actually of my one of my co writers over at Fan girl is Jasmine. She and I we last year. We did an article together called the table to susperious because I love the original and did not enjoy the new one and she did not enjoy the original and she loved the new one. So if you want to read that, you can look that up at finger whichcom found footage. Kind of the iconic one for that is the blur witch project. Folk core, like a five dollar budget, makes right, right, right, and that's that's the tail a lot of these horror films. Folk horror, the wicker man, one thousand nine hundred and seventy three. I's not watch the Nick Cage virsion. It is hot garbage and then a sound bar and then midsummer by Aria Aster as well. That's a relatively recently yes, that came out last year. And there are four horror movies that I will never watch again. Two of...

...them are area asters, but they're great, great films. Possession movie, the exorcist, is the scariest movie I've ever seen. It often is called the scariest movie of all time and it definitely earns that name again. One of those I'll never watch kid SCI FI horror alien and that's my favorite movie of all time. How did you feel about the sequel's, like the Alien, aliens, Alien Three? I like aliens, but I think they're two different genres. Kind of move more towards some action. Yeah, I didn't really care for alien three. Alien for was okay, but still not great. I don't mind the PREQUELS. I actually my introduction to the whole alien franchises I saw prometheus first, HMM, which was really interesting for me, than go back and watch alien and realize Oh, Prometheus really mirrord alien a lot. That's really interesting. If you want to do it just a monster movie, I recommend going back look at those universal monster films, but I think if you the best one of those is the Wolfman with Lawn Chaney Junior. That one really holds up and the the makeup effects they did that were actually really monumental for the time and I just his acting. That was really what makes that film still work today. Body horror in pretty much anything by David Cronenberg, rabid videodrome scanners the main reason I like plug the thing. The thing is is definitely true that I never thought about that as body horror. I think of that one still is like sci fi horror to but yeah, it is definitely looting horror stuff. But the reason I like David Cronenberg is while his films like, if you are sensitive to Gore and disgusting things, do not watch them, but not have a good time. It's not there for the sake of being disgusting. It actually serves a narrative function within the story, and I think that's really interesting because not a lot of people do that. A horror set horror sats hire scream by west craven, cabine in the woods by Joss Whedon, the dead don't die by Jim Jarmush is a love letter to Zombie horror. And I said the naked Zombie from neither living dead will come back naked but Zombie. Man, but Zombie. So that lady it shows up again as a naked Butt Zombie in the dead don't die. It's the same actress as an Old Lady, because she's very old and they but naked, but naked but Zombie. She shows up in the dead don't die. where. But I saw the dead don't die twice in the theater and I he hot laugh through the whole thing. Some people don't know what to do with that film, but it's a love letter to Zombie horror and I appreciate that on that level. I might also point out that, and I again I know a lot more about horror that I should from how many horror films I've watched. Right is because the channel I watch he talks about the behind the scenes and the history, and so learned a lot of that. But scream really changed the genre in a big way because scream was very irreverent and self referential and kind of deconstructive of horror films intentionally, and then a lot of films for a while tried to do that but didn't quite understand right why scream worked right, and even screen had sequels that were varying. I've only seen the first one soon, but I watched it before I had seen a lot of horror movies. I still recognize some of the stuff they were trying to do. And then I watched it a couple years ago when it was at the air's Ley grand and I appreciated on a completely different level, having watched a lot more horror films in between those times. So that was really fun. The two best new horror directors that are making movies right now, or area aster, he's the guy who did hereditary in midsummer, and Jordan Peel, I was about to say, which what a wild swing for him. Yeah, I could go from sketch comedy to crazy horror. Yeah, he what I appreciate about both of them is that they both understand the genre. I read something about area aster not too long ago where he's say they just me. He so he's like thirty five. As a kid he rented, basically rented, every single horror movie in the too video stores in his area and it shows because if you don't have to know anything about horror movies to watch and enjoy his movies just as films, but if you do, you're like, oh my gosh, the sound editing is from the Texas chainsaw massacre. That shot is from Halloween. The like midsummer is kind of like the wicker like the one thousand nine hundred and seventy three Christopher Lee wickerman on steroids. No, there's no stupid beings. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to interrupt for a second. Apparently there is water pouring out of the hood over our stove at our house. So I've got it. Okay. Oh, no, emergency exit for Jason. My Gosh. So y'all have fun. Okay, how you work? Why is there water above your stone? Well, I'm assuming it's the rain. Oh my gosh, Jason, I'm sorry. Yeah, it's good luck, my friend. Good luck with that odd speed. God speeds out a man. Yeah, it speeds better man man. Yet talk about horror, my goodness, but yeah, the wall, not the of myself. Yeah, Arey asked her. Is just he's so knowledgeable about the horror genre and he played. He pays visual homage to the horror genre in every single film he makes while simultaneously creating an original story that is super, super terrifying. His cinematography basically solidified why I will watch every single film he makes, because he does these...

...he does these shots where it's a fixed shot, you're not moving, nothing's happening in the shot, but something scary is about to happen and it just holds that tension there and you feel trapped and he it, or he does like these long canning, like slow pan out shots and then suddenly, as you're getting like a bigger picture of what's actually going on in the background. You're like and then your stump is he's a great, great, great great rict. You a vocal horror movie watcher. I am. What I watch is my buddy and I. It's kind of our thing now to go see his films together, and she will like grab my arm and I'll be like, and then their multiple fbombs, membres, the less of the scary expert in more like no, he's hid behind the door. Doll, open the door. What are you doing? No, no, not so much that, at least like if I'm in a theater, but I'll definitely jump or, you know, make like a ridiculous sound. So, but yeah, area asked her. Great, great director, someone who I feel like does something similar and yet different, is Jordan Peel. And what I really love about Jordan Peel again he demonstrates just how knowledgeable he is, not only of horror but of also science fiction as well. Science fiction plays a huge role in his films. I took over the toilet. Yeah, and and you know, honestly, some people rag on it, but I don't think they're understanding what he's trying to do and I just really appreciate his cinematic work. So with with Jordan Peel, not only is he doing that same kind of thing where he is paying homage to all of the other things within the genre, his cinematography is fantastic. I think of us is a wonderful recommend a of like example of that, but also he offers social commentary in a way that is more palatable than some other people would would think. I think us, I think get out, does that really well. It's I mean it's a commentary on eugenics. It made me think of like Hinr Henrietta lacks. HMM. If you've not seen it, check it out. But I think us is more poignant in that like I saw us three times in the theater and it took me the third time seeing it to where it wasn't about me trying to figure out the logistics of how the dial bingers worked versus who was in the position of power, and that blew my mind. And then so I'm watching it again, I'm like and like catching all these little tiny things. It's so good. His films are really worth rewatching just to get those little tiny details downpat so those are the two new horror directors I would really recommend you guys got time to talk a minute about philosophical stuff with sure, with a whoor. I know we're running a little along. No worries. So I think part of the reason I like horror there's there's a couple different things. I read an article a while back. It was shortly after it chapter two came out. There there's been studies done that people who have experienced trauma in some way, especially like as children, gravitate to the horror genre, be it like in film or book form, because it helps them to process their own trauma. And one of the things I really love about it Stephen King's it, you know, regardless of which version you watch, I think I think the newer version does this a little better, where the scary thing is not pennywise. What is scary is the adults are working out their childhood trauma and Pennywise is the end, is the physical manifestation of that trauma, but the scary part is them facing down the things as adults that were traumatizing for them as children, and I think that is just an interesting thing that I don't think you can do that with a lot of other films because horrors the only genre that really takes evil realistically. It looks it evil for what it is. It's bad. It's almost like and like even like superhero films to a degree, and I love supergirl films. Y'All know that. Like, yeah, they face evil, but evil is usually defeated by the end. The horror genre, you don't always defeat evil at the end. Sometimes evil defeats you and and Gosh, is that not the real world? I also am not a the biggest fan, and now there are exceptions to that, because I did enjoy day the debt or never looking dead, but in general I like the good guys to win in the end, even if it's true, I'm okay with it being a puric victory. I'm okay with that. In fact, I I'd rather have that where it's a victory that costs, that had a tremendous cost, right because yeah, good still one, but it came at a price, because when the bad guys man, I'm just like, well, why did I bother watching? That's what happens in real life a lot of times, or was it feels like what happens in real life a lot of times. I get enough of that. So when I want my fiction to be a little more we talked about this three star Trek. Well, my fiction to be a little more optimistic. Right, right. And I think it just comes down to why you're watching, like why are you a movie watcher? Like why do you enjoy these things? And if you are somebody who is absorbing stories and just wants to watch something that they understand and relate to, I think you can get drawn to horror a lot because it's more relatable. In certain genres of Hoor can be way more relatable than than silly, you know, romantic comedies or things like that, or superhero movies. It can carry with it a lot more realism and just wait. But also you have people that really enjoy like, like...

...you said, you probably go and watch a movie because you want to hear an entertaining story and for you, the idea at that like the good person wins, is is part of the entertainment, part of the excitement, and so there's something that's missing for you when you go and try to enjoy a story. Yeah, which is essentially what movies are. They're just stories being told. I think we also have this idea that there has to be ultimate justice at the end of everything. So if a story in a small way reflects that, it feels satisfying. And if there's no ultimate justice, then it feels unsatisfying and a way because it's like well, they just got away with that. That's not just because seeing gone girl. I have not. I'd been listen to that title without thinking. It's like a Sassy teenage it's cong girl, like at the end of that movie you'll just America, say anything about it, but you will be like throwing things through windows. Yeah, Ryan, Watch that one and told me that I would not like it and for you know some of the content. And sure, yeah, yeah, and like okay, and I knew enough about it to know it's like this is probably not going to be a movie that's going to be very good. Eat's just all the old cement, no justice is served movie. And you're right. I mean like the movie. It's not even a horror movie, you know, it's just it's a suspense, drama, criminal, you know, movie and it is very graphic, but the ending is just it's for the sheer purpose of the movie that leaves you with a sense of injustice and you're like which and I think there's a place for that I just don't actively shure it out right. No, yeah, but, but, but I think one of the things horror genres do that other films do in part but horror films do in whole, is they kind of lean on your subconscious to little to listen feelings, mostly fear. So like the descent. You ever seen imagery from the descent? It's like, if you're CLAUSTROPHOBIC, you will be terrified during that film. So it kind of they lean on these primal things. Who hasn't seen shapes in the closet and in the dark? I've been like, well, this is how I die. So I think horror movies in a way that other genres hands in certain ways, because we tend to push that stuff to the back because it's not constant. So horror movies tend to tend to touch on certain emotional responses that other movies don't usually go to. Now there are definitely movies that do go to those places, but usually that's like a part of it, not the whole of it, and usually the horror film that's the overarching goal, is to kind of trigger a primal response and get you in that maybe not the horror comedy, so much bad right, and I mean and again not to lump all horror and the same categories we've just experienced through this podcast. There are so many different genres of whore, but I think primarily horror harps harps way more on the visuals of like what you're seeing. And it's funny when you come out of film school, I know a lot of friends coming out of film school. That's typically and when you want to be a director, those typically are the first movies that anybody like you look at any director nowadays, go watch them, might like like follow their history back to when they were either in school or just getting out of school, and I can almost guarantee the first thing they try to do is make some horror movie, because all these things that you learn, like, okay, you know, learn everything there is to know about lighting, like what kind of lighting conveys, what message, what kind of okay, everything you know about audio. I think they get all these things, but essentially they're not creative writers yet. Like they've learned everything that there is about film and they have all this knowledge, but they haven't created creative stories yet. And a horror platform and a canvas is so, so ready for all of those tricks, because you can just go I want to make somebody feel this way, so let's use the lighting in this way. I want to do this, so let's use the audio this way. And it doesn't necessarily it. You don't need to have all this knowledge on reading a compelling story or like it really interesting dialog and it can kind of just be like there's going to be a guy walking around. will say he's crazy and he's just trying to kill people. But let's make the really, really interesting, talented part be how we go about filming this kind of like silly scenario and then leave a lot of go out unexplained. There's you don't have to explain a whole lot of likes be like well, clearly it's not Rustan's going to kill people. It's about you don't need to go in different explain and you don't have to be you can be a little avant garde with how you're filming it, because in a horror movie, if the filming is a little weird, then that doesn't throw it off. Like if the avengers is all filmed the Dutch angles and like crazy camera things going on, gonna be like what why it's taking away his marvel movie. Weird, yeah, but in a horror room like whoa wasn't expecting that. Well, and I think Arie astrange wouldn't feel a great examples of doing that. And they think Arie asked her to. Like you know, I talked more about how Jordan Peel does a lot of social commentary with his work. One thing I neglected to mention about area ast her is that while his films are absolutely terrifying, there is there is an underlying story and they ask a question at the end and, like hereditaries, question is can I escape my family trauma or is it hereditary? Midsummer is about a girl who it means it's a break up movie, but it's also her trying to find her place in the world, her family, like she's trying to find a family. Pretty rough way to break up with someone. Yeah, well, well, it's pretty aggressive break up. Yeah, that the breakup is something is is a different aspect.

Her story is too fold. By the way, Florence Pew, I have seen her in three different movies and she plays three completely different roles in those. She is like the Knicks Meryl Streep. She's amazing. Joins a cult in midsummer and then she's paged at the professional wrestler in finding with my family, and then she's a Me March and little women. So just so, so different. But she's incredible in midsummer also. Like again, this is where I get grumpy about the academy for a few different reasons. But Tony Collette deserved an Oscar for her performance in in hereditary and Lupete and Nuango. She deserved an Oscar nom for us and neither one were even nominated. And I'm just like, are you kidding me? She might mother. And yes, she was, you know, of course, and all, yeah, the the she's the mother, but she's also like her Doppel Ganger as well. And just watching her do this transition she'd apparently she likes she apparently she was like there's some behind set footage, like talking to the director and she's keeping that voice. that. So you want me to do this? Seem like this, like that's dedication. Yeah, you know, she she is amazing, just really underrated. So those would be those two directors would be the two I would really come into. You if you want to watch really solid modern horror, but get the lights on. Yeah, also, when we were watching Halloween, there were commercials which really kind of yeah, that that. Yeah, that really I can see it in a big I can see it in a big screen setting. I've seen on the big screen twice. Yeah, that was like I could see it in a in a big screen setting, being scarier, and that's such a beautifully shot film. Half the budget of that film was spent on Pando Vision Care Cameras. The budget for Halloween, one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight, was thirty three hundred thousand dollars. Hundred fifty thousand of that went to these panavision cameras. So it shot in two hundred and thirty five one the the other big line outem in the budget was donald pleasant salary, who's which was Twentyzero cantrells. Yeah, I know those not in the know are one of our pastors. Is Donald Pleasant a Doppel Ganger? Leg like, legit? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Final thoughts on horror. Guys definitely respect it more. I mean not that I didn't respect it before, I'm just not as super into it, but I think understanding all the different subgenres, it's like, Oh, when I hear horror, I don't think. I really, I don't mind. Doesn't usually go to silence of the lamb and alien. You know, look, it's more on the modern day, kind of like Gore Porn, if you would like, where I'm just like a, I can't do the torture porn. I like. I think some of the stories behind those films are interesting, but I just can't watch her first saw not a bad movie. I've only the ones. I can't watch it just that. I would say the perch films are like that. I've actually only seen the the purge prequel that came out of school summers, a good United States of America. Yeah, basically I was like wow, this is a really compelling story, but I can't watch people be tortured. I can't watch it. So, yeah, I don't see got horror movies. I've watched a couple, a handful, and you know, a good movie is a good movie, right, I think even if you don't, if you're like well, I didn't like the horror aspects of it, you can appreciate a good movie for being a good movie, especially if you're thinking about filmography, cinematography, dialog, audio design, those sorts of things. But for me. I really enjoy horror games, which I didn't think I would because I don't care at all for horror movies. I did not think I was going to enjoy horror games, but I end up getting really into them. I really enjoyed so started with I just like paying five nights at Freddy's, which is just jump scares right, and at a certain point it just becomes annoying. You like plea speak the level. But then I play this game called Amnesia, the dark descent, and this is this this team has made several games that are all very similar, and then they made this one called Soma that was really interesting. Not that scary, but really interesting. But the the whole thing about Amnesia is you can't look at the monsters are you start to go crazy. So and they're attracted to light. So when the monsters come rolling around, you have to go hide in the corner in the dark as you're going and saying and you're like whimpering and you can hear the monsters like plotting around and then you see them you're like no, so that was it was it was. It felt I felt the tension and the fear and the anxiety. In a way that horror movies just don't. Did it do it for me. So I really enjoyed playing the horror game in small bursts. Right. Yeah. So, so I think Horror Games, I think it's a really good medium for horror because you're the one controlling the events, because you're the one who has to more or less take responsibility for the that the character makes a stupid decision, it's your fault. So I think it. I think it has it. I think it that interactivity is is what made it click for me. Yeah, I I've never really played any horror games. I do remember being in like fifth grade, being at a buddies house and she had like a Siga Saturn and some vampire game that we played for that one and that freaked me out for weeks. I cannot tell you the name of that game. I'll have to Google it later, but I remember being particularly freaked out by like the cut scenes in that in that MMM game. Great, we're playing horror games. I haven't gotten into a whole lot of them. Back back in the day, you know the orange box. Yeah, like...

...like the there was a PC game before that called blue shift, which is one of like I think the gate, the way the game was set up is that it was the same storyline but the different games you were playing different roles. Like one of them your scientists. One of them you're one of like the military guys coming in to stop the it's essentially like a like a science experiment goes wrong. I us these these things that are created. They're eating people, kind of like ill resident evil, but but blue shift. You're a security guard on Shit Varney during and these names, Calhoun, oh, your cowho and your Barney. You're like you eat. Starts off you're just getting in this little, like you know, this little shuttle, and it like kind of goes forward and then it goes down into the into like the the science bay or whatever, but it's very slow like getting started and it's just even as a kid I was, I was nervous playing it because it just slowly built, slowly built, slowly built, and like yeah, as the closest to a horn, no half, like definitely have some horror elements in it and of course I've played resident evil, which they're so campy that they're silly, but there's definitely some good scares and rest of the evil. I've been told the the new alien, the newish alien isolation is supposed to be really honest, supposed to be really good. Yeah, I've seen a little bit. I've watched my friends husband playing a little bit of it one time. She was only video jet and yeah, he had a good few good jump scares out of it. I was pretty fun. Yeah. So, so for me Horror Games are more I find them easier to access than horror movies. Well, I don't mind a good horror comedy. I got over my sometime when I was doing biology and doing dissections. I got over Gore. Yeah, I don't seek it out, but it doesn't bother me for the most part. I stuff. I've never been like, okay, I had trouble with Luke Cage, Not Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, when he has to she has to put the needle under. Oh Yeah, yeah, I was like yeah, I hate I stuff and I love Jessica James. Yeah, all right, so cool that. I think that wrapped about it. Yeah, sorry little today, guys. Thank you for coming out. Yeah, awesome to hear a little more about horror. Thanks for having me. So when should we do the Ashley Corrects the episode? Yeah, the one will tide lit like a friend's episode, the one where Ashley rebuts everything. One we're Ashley is right and they are wrong. For those not in the know, Greg and I became friends after we argued about star wars for an hour in our friends kitchen, for at a Halloween party, isn't yeah, Ashley thinks the last Jedi was a good movie. So the last jet is my favorite star wars movie for a super duper hot take. Yes, on into that side all right time. Yeah, so for another day. Well, we'll round this out. Greg. Where can people find you? You find me on facebook at chapter one films, or email me Greg at chapter one films dots. Ashley. All right, you can follow me on facebook at Facebookcom the nerdy blogger, or you can tweet me on twitter at the nerdy blogger, or you could follow my writing on Fan girlish at Fan girlishcom. I have a column that I write every week called way back Wednesday, where I review one retro film each week. The should I still need to watch demolition man, so you can find me at Holy Golem. You can find the show at dearly debated. About those on twitter or email us. Dearly debated. At GMAILCOM. So, until next time, we'll see see y'all later. Sco Scots and shivers down your spine. shadings goes well shot your so see your dot night stoop stools speak with such a screech you'll shake and shut in surprise when you hear these shrink.

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