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Dearly Debated
Dearly Debated

Episode 3 · 1 year ago

Episode 3 - God of Hammers

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We're tackling the MCU (or at least a good chunk of it). Nathanael is wearing mother's drapery, Greg is a jet engine, and moderator Jason whispers in your ear - Longing, rusted, seventeen, daybreak, furnace, nine, benign, homecoming, one, freight car!

Listen, my people are in great dangerand you- and I we have to find this really powerful. Being Walo happens tobe my sister okay, that is so wrong on Soman. I Dn't want to fight your sister.That's that's a family evil B. I don't care what she is. I'm not fightinganymore beings, I'm sick of it. I just told you if I turn into the Halk, I'mnever going to come back again. You don't Careingthtembe honest when itcomes to find Evin beings. He is very powerful US that banes powerful, anSFTALL right. Welcome to the next episode of the dearly debated. I amyour host Greg and starlord friends. Alongside on your left, it's AthanielLevinson, all right and also here's Jason. I'veread way too many comic Sdaniel, that's Tus thing right. Unless you'reEin the same one over and over again, then so, let's start off with this week inhistory. Maybe so this is for the week of wells, Thursday June, the fourthtoday so this week in Histr, one thouand, ninehundred and IRTY, two, thebattle of Midway begins a decisive victory for the US. Less notable werethe battles of the starting line where US forces lost to Germany and MONICOgrampre after hit their put sugar in the American driver's gas tanks and thefinal catdown skirmish where US troops resolutely outbreak danced the SS onethousand nine Hunde Ad Irty, four, the US tuspill begins Mani, said it was theworst soup ever one thousandninetundred and eiht four Bruce Springsteanreleases born in the USA. A best selling album less popular popular werehis follow up. Albums raised in Canada went to school in Prussia, got marriedand settled down in Taiwan and died in Lichtenstein, and that's what happenedthis week in histors lookmal, it's a real place.Okay, it doesn't sound like Ao Place. No, but it's a really l, it's one ofthose countries that has three people. It's also in an expal, and so you justkind of assume like it was just likea Birk from imagination place. Okay! Well, if you hade 't, guess by ourMiddle Names, for this episode- and I guess thedaels wasn't really a middlename here: no Hin Youknow, either middle name or n, were going to talkabout the NC. Today and we left an entire episode for it, well probablyneed more, because I mean it's the NCOU, it's only like twenty two movies now, but thank God we have our mediatorJason Year, because this could get out of hand so just to clarify we're talking aboutthe movie universe. I don't think we'll talk about agents of shield Jason Migtbring in Comic Book. Lara is just a little bit like theencycle, yes or ses. So what Happenedi Soi'm, mostly familiar with marvel fromvisual media, not from cocbooks, I guess okaym from movies and TV shows,is what I'm familiar with Becauseo my dad. You know what I'm going to savethat WN. We till we get to that. So, okay, why don't you go ahead and startus suff with the first topic, Tintingting Yeah, gofirt topic, allright, so first topic on our MC discussion is just real simple. What isyour favorite movie in the MC ve Ro, the Nou M, I'd have to say hm you haveenough ov. I think I do, and it's not going to be like it's not the best, onefor sure. Like thereare big problems, it it, I think civil war is my favoritejust to go back and rewatch just because I really my favorite part ofthe mcu hyriod are the characters interacting with each other and likelike, for instance, the scene in age of Ultron, where they're all sitting thereafter the party talking about thoris hammer like I know it's just like it'sa corty scene or whatever, but it seems like that in Ay movie I could go backand rewash and because it's just you know it's just you've, seen all thesecharacters in different movies and you're so curious s to how they'regoing to react when they get and start. You know interacting with each other,and you finally get to see it and I feel like in in civil war, one you're introduced toa lot of new characters. I mean we know aunt man, but we had never really seenhim interact with all the other ones, except for you know the one quick partWor, the Falcon we haven't seen Spiderman. Yet we haven't seen blacktofpanther. Yet this is all before all those things and also you kind of takenout the heady hitters like thor and hulk and yeah visions. There he arrives late, which is classic. Youknow, classic storytelling, so you're kind of just left with all like theminor fighters, and then you get this awesome fight scene in you know theairport, you know and just as somebody...

...that thinks of like what do I want togo back and watch it's typically that one yeah it's Proi mean it's myfavorite. For that reason, as far as just like, what do I want to go backand watch the fight scenes and interaction scemes like when they'reall like kind of having he conversation over whether they should go with theaccords or not? I love scenes like that. You know it just gets me. I have somethings to say about the accords, but we're going to get there. I didn't say it was the best movie by along show. I totally agree, I think, either end game or winter soldier, okay,so winter soldier, I think, is probably just the best standalone movie justfrom a movie standpoint. Agree with that because they all you know they alltend towards shlock a little bit. But I think whenour soldier is a movie thatnoncomic book fans can enjoy not to say that other ones noncom book fans can'tenjoy. I think this one is probably the most solid. You don't even need anysetup for what's going on, because everyone knows who captain America is.So you don't need that explain to you, and so you can just jump in and enjoythis. This really well made little bit of political thriller, a Little BitAction, little bit intrigue and Captain America being tested. Whenyou know the the government he's working for, betrays him right whenhe's not yeah back in nineteen, which we talked about cap last time, so 'mnot Goinna rederate my feelings on his art but and game. I just thought wasthat's how you calminate Rihe, O Skywalker, take notice. That's how youcolminate a series of movies in a very spectacular way. They didn't they thatmovie. If you den' Watch anvinity game, you had no business watching. Thatmovie, which I really appreciate right, is that weetaling in Tan Ny wore okay,okay, sorry, I was cuck yeah. So just yes, I really appreciate and the Tecnipickuet you did this to a certain extent where it was like. If you don'tknow what Pokemon is you ave, no business going to see the Pokimon thismovie, because it doesn't explain what Pokiman are I' just like yeah, they're,Poki Mon they're here and game was like if you didn't watchthe first movie, why a you watching this one? So it was clearly I mean toyou know you could argue Harry Potter, Definitely Hal ose Park to twilightwhatever, whatever part to. Obviously, but this one didn't have a part tobehind it, even though it is absolutely a part too. I thought they did a reallygood job. We knew they were going to. We knew that all thise characters hadto come back right. So it's you know as much as they tried to tug our Hartstrings, an infinity war because those actors are signed for more movies. Weknow those characters are coming back, so there is everything you know. Allthe stakes are little bit drained by the real world kind of ruse. Your suffensiit disbeliefa bit, but in end game all the characters who are the old core whoaren't coming back. We know aren't coming back. Those are fair game. Ithink black widow was a bit of a shock because she has another movie comingout: Hen you're like okay, so it has to be a precool whant, the hell guys, butreally just thet. I just I thought it was really Lell. CONSTRUCTID T wasSuper Fun. You know the whole time. hist thing they paid homage to theentirety of the e Lor that they built up from the very beginning and itdidn't feel like any characters, were starved for screed time or took up toomuch screen time. I will say the whole captain. Marble thing was a bit likeshe's too strong, but that's is captain marvel being too strong. It is eseparate issue ot there iy Menath R for Beig too too strong.Well, no thor the movie fere, Oh for me, Dad Bod yeah. I thought that was agreat yeah. I thought that was fantastic, that they took this character. Who's alwaysbeen this strong. I can accomplish it guy. You know overcoming all the oddsand then you know Tano snaps and he kind of he's no skywalkerd in the way that LokeSkywalker should have look skywalkered. It was very clear, like e, he lost hiswill to fight yeah yeah, because he because- and you know, I think, lastJed- I again could have gone there, but they very clearly established why helet himself go yeah yeah. Well, I was, I was going to say an game again, notthe best movie. I think I can agree with that winter soldiers- probably thebest standalone movie for me, going with things that haven't been listed sofar, the first Guardiansto the galaxy movie was just a lot of fun. It wassomething that I I had read guardians of the galaxy that team before mostpeople had not, but even I was sitting there going, can they pull off a moviewith a raccoon o talking raccoon and a tree, and you know it was one of the Times wintersoldier was the first one and then I think guardians was right around thesame time where they started doing the different yeah. It's a superhero movie,but this is a comedy. This is like a political thriller. This is a heigstmovie and they started experimenting with that and I think guardians is theone that proved that they could pull that off. Yeah and you know at a great soundtrack, itsjust a lot of fun to watch and kind of took a break from all the stuff we hadgoing on on earth and said: Hey. This is a bigger universe. Whas. I reallyappreciated moving on kind of the opposite of of the spectrum.I think I feel like I know, whewe're...

...going to go here, but least favoritemcu movies. You want to start off this time with Aniyou. I don't want to startThatis eoust just gon to echo go, but I guess I will. I mean Captain Marvel's, my least favorite ncumovie and again it's right ready. I getbolike your guy, you just don't like Gills, it's like no, it's not why I'mreally into film and I' million characters, ind their development andit's kind of clear like it's, not even just a little bit, I mean like theMovieis, not super well received. I me it's got the lowest rating of nymcumovie and really her involvement is either ches. Just your favorite, justbecause or you're kind of, like Oh yeah, there's that girl and the problem isthat she's stronger than everybody else. So it's like you kind of want to do agood job at difit like like, like you think of like Superman like he is theheart of of the the Justice League, even thoughhe meant might not be the most compelling character and most peoplemight say all Batmans the coolest, but he still is the face of it. Why?Because he's the most powerful and he's unstoppable? And so here it's like yourpowerful. Most unstoppable person is kind of like this distant side,character that you didn't you faild to Denolowell, who SHPA and yeah I mean itwas almost intentional, and I think- and I get that it's like oh her arthese men acting like sexis pigs and so stick it to them. That's one thing herbeing a dick is a totally nothing but like w an another thing, it is just ejuest understand what the word the escalation means. I think I think theyput too much weight on the fact that it like an IT, come out on like NationalWomen's Day or something around like a week or ih IG. It was very big and Ithink it did yeah and e carried a whole lot of weight with that push to her. Itwas like. Oh, my gosh. She re are like this really kindof kind of like bad badboy, get girl character. If you want to call it that, like she walks around thefrown on your face, but like every character like that, you think of likeoverine, you think of Batman, like they all. Have these really deep painful,compelling backstories and she's just like a bunch of boys kind of made funof me and it was kind of hard broht, I'm a superhero, and it was like, like id your parents, the get killed inan alley and out now you're kind of tustling with whether you should killpeople ontotand live or like have you kind of experienced eons of pain andlike you're dealing with that a that's where you're kind of a jerk stik nop,I'm just a jerk now and Ian I can and you're like all right. Didn't you watchthe movie? It's because she was way too emotional. They only said it abouttwenty times yeah because well they had to hell us because it wasn't clear fromher acting now. I'm not gongto hate, em, foryouLarson, because she's, fantastic and Scott pilgrim sure no she's a Guyie gother confused with Alison Bree, and I was like that's not the person, I'mthinking of she's in community she's, great okay, I've actually eher her nameAstra a she hope TV show. yeason read. I think so yeah that I feel like she hooks supposed tobe like six feet tall. Just just Goo Li he's probably supposed to be big, butwe get o know. I mean I think, like canotically, she ols very tall. Well, Imean when she's hole. Oh, she have different eights. When she's, I thoughtshe just sdayng. I can Alit, but I thought she stayed a. She holp form thewhole time we're getting off topic yeah anyway. That's till Mc, I think myleast favorite movie is Ironran. Three Kavin Barvel was just I. I honestlyfound Captain Marbell kind of boring again not be not necessarily because ofthe characters but because she's just too strong like there's. No, she had nostakes, they did like she can't die. I found e the creed part though tha thescrawls. I thought were the most interesting part of that movie and youknow then setting up the stralls and kind of twisting on them right, becauseyou never ik shifter type person yeaand. Those guys were Great Theyre Hilarious,they wer they were so were so I really enjoyed that, but I thought relaasscharacterjust kind of bland. I just I didn't like Iman three also, but Idisagree with it being my least faor just because I mean like it was atleast Watchabul, because you have a character that you are kind ofdeveloped a lot and it's, like, I didn't, think, have marvels unmatchableI'll disagree with you on that shes definitely marry Su Yeah. It'sdefinitely there's. Definitely a lot to a lot of my biggest problem is likewhat the heck are they going to do for the sequel everyone stronger than sheis unless they, unless they metraid her and just take heur powers away, youmean she's stronger than everyone else. Yes, that's WHATA. What did I say? thes,Jo as my intersexist is coming out. Everyone is strong everyone, no Iman,three MUC, my least favorite, because I was so looking forward to Manderin whenthey pulled this Fitcheru. It was just a big slap in the face M and I was likeI heard some of the arguments were, which apparently, they got fixed OUPwith Shang Che ten years too late Marvel, but the idea that they took oneof the most iconic villains in iron man and were like na he's just playing andthen the real the went. Oh, my Gosh, when Adren Brodi or was't is ting, wasMajrean boin and it wasn't Adrogrerg Killin that they you when Killian isjust standing there and it's like tos like spits fire, it looks identical toa a a scene from scrubs Wen is Winvi. Nohehe's like opens his mouth and breaths fire, and it looks ridiculous, and Iremind me it it's like one. It looks like one of jds plashbacks on scrups. Iwas like this is stupid and then pepper like lights on fire, and it was justthat Yeoll Anas, just a like randomly...

...like it, was a total mess a and Italked about why. I don't think iron man had good arts, Thyou Coul Argu witharound that. I honestly think he had the same character arc and every singleone it was pivote. It was sentet around different, different reasons for hischaracter art, but they all had the same character, art, but then, in allthe other movies in the eventen movies he's the same person. He hasn't learnedanything he's still the same rich duce bag, which I want to talk about. Thisacot yeah ye we are, but I know I can talk about this pieports Ye WLL, we'lljump back into iron man. We can probably cover this covy acords. Wetalk about the avengers a little bit more yeah. I think myleast favorite is a prettybasic one. It's just incredible incredible bulk, just because it was Odis jointt. I enjoyed the movie, but it's just. It feels siply jointed fromthe rest of them and it's a little bit slower, and why did we not get anyother halt movie? Speaking of haul rights issues classic realy? The same reason wehaven't seen name or the sub submariner ANA. Some of the other charactersbefore lasic Hol can appear in other people's movies, but paramount gets lotof money. E appears in his own solo kind of thing. I think I so weird thcomic book wrights are messed up anyway. Next up we're just going to talk, gothrough some of the characters and we already touched on thor a little bit.Yeah wewere talking about one of his biggest character, changes which isback. You know in at God thor. I thought it was a great move, but it'sfantastic. I think thor has one of the most divers arcs out of all thecharacter ye in the mcu yeah I'll. Let you guys kind of jump in on that, so myfirst experience with Thor was my dad used to watch the old four cartoon.Okay, that's just cheesehe's all get out. You know he speaks in Shakespeareand English, that's fantastic! That was my first, so I've known thor for a longtime, and so then, when the for movie came out, you know my dad was likewe're going to see this because he grew up watching thor, and so he went welike that was awesome. A you know. I Isi, you know and just coming off witthe heels o iron man. I think it was second or third a cat might have been.I don't know I have. I have no mind for the chronology other than the fact thatI know Im. An three came out after imen to came out afser the verst Loer cameout after the second iron magazine, Endof Vironman to I think you get thescene where they go and it yeah yeah n e Hammer I yeah. So I have no ideaabout the chronology, but thor was Thorat. Thought was fan, was fantasticor Al Mast great thor two was. I had that bad sequel problem were withkind of the same film but worse and then for three was just a blast,because Tyiatt was just like it's a comic book and we're just going to havesome fun yeah and it turned out to be fantastic and they did the whole planethulk thing and and introduce a lot of characters. JeffGoldboom they were like Hey Jeff, Golblan, comeb, Jeff Goldbloom and Igreat o Uch Stuso. They really embrace a kind of well the tyytt style, which Ithought messed really well with thor. Who is you know, God, King of space, who undergoes serious struggles? Butyou can't take him that seriously because he's the god of thunder yeah the got of Hammers Sorry, I love his character arc, even though it wasn't a fan, a thorDadbon but yeah. What my first thought of thor is, I didn't know my ton is acharacter prior to the first movies, and I thought they did a good job atblending because because my my thought was like okay, you have these kind ofcool characters like Tony Stark is just kind of like a cool guy and he's gotall this machinery Ye. You have like, like a banner who's, this scientist andhe fits in well like okay, you get a scientist, you have an old school likewar hero in Captain American yea, and then there's like this mythical God andI'm like how are they really going to do this like? And I thought they didsuch a good job after watching the first thoor move, because I'm like itfelt so much. In my opinion, it felt very different from the other movies,but then I thought they did a good job, just plugging in the minor charactersto koffuse him in and O. If, I'm being honest, I was never super caught upwith a thorm with it to him to see where he liked to see what he was goingto do with the avengers, but it did change for me when Ragnara came upbecause again I watched the war one and to and was just kind of like are. Theseare fillers like I'm mainly interested in Avengers, but his character startedto change a ton with ragnerock, and it's really, I think- and they do sucha good job of this, like for seeing his change in the future, because right nowhe's with the Guardians Right: U and that that transition was so staf. Youhad thought you watched the first thor movie and then you watchd guardians theGalaxy and said Hey thos, going to join the Guardians. You'd be like you areinsane like they're, not like they're like there's, there's not going to beany meshing. thors Ar complitely is complete. You know like like plank ofwood, and the Guardians are hilarious and now you've slowly over the courseof these movies changed him into like by the time you're washing ragnerockyou're, like tiis kind of like a guardians tof the galaxy movie and inThor, is changing so much as he loses his hair. He loses his eye and you'reso you're already, like we've got a different thaar coming out of the endof this movie and and then by the time. Obviously, you know in game comesaround and you have a they add the huge comic you know, like addition of himbeing overweight and just kind of being...

...a bum which again it plays him with hischaracter. Ip actually gives him a deeper, a deeper arc than mostcharacters where it's like. He see how he'he's handling this and whet otherpeople. You know you can be like okay Tony's over dramatic and he's reallysad and cap is going to these meetings, but he's like the most real andauthentic, like this guy's, just traliol yeah, he dave up yeah. It'slike. I don't like seeing that as a fan. I know hardcore fans weren't even a fanof ragnerock because they were like weal. I think thor is so cool and thisis more of a comedy like you're, just doing it for all the gags. But ifsomebody os not super attached to thor, I loved it and- and the thing is, ifyou think about it, right, thor coming to earth had the whole scene where heknows nothing about Earth call. trude throws the top cup on the groundanother and it's Hilarious, yeah right those in the best o get an spends allthis time on earth. He starts to pick up the mannerisms yeah of the otherpeople that he's spending time with. So when HEU Gat, Wiy, Ragne Rock, you knowhe's his personality has his personality, but the way he expresseshimself has changed. He's always been. This kind of you know outgoing fun,loving, Goof Ball says it gotten bi s, you know he was. He was serious and itbloosin great with the Guardians, because you have starlord he's tryingto do that with all this companion right time right, a cant e, an coar andthey like, like guys know. This is how you do it and then now he gets pluggedin with Thoris like another Alphum al, but but it's yeah its also love acharater, and I think it'll be interesting. Seeing them go forwardbecause they're both at this point the characters that have made a lot ofmistakes thor and star Lord and are kind of broken and now they've got setup this kind of rivalry between the two of them and thor grew so much as acharacter. You know the ragrock changed the thing, so much reignited theinterest in him. So much that hone Chris emswore wanted to come back afterthat movie and to He's going to be the first one to get more than three Solamovies. They've got thor four lined up he's going to be in guardians, he's oneof the only avengers that they're actually going to move forward with atthis point yeah. So next up on the sheet I've got talking about iron man start things offbefore we get too far or before we get into it. One of the things was reallyinteresting. I always I debated saying iron man is one of my favorite redmovies. Just because starting the whole thing off, that movie was so good. Itwas so much better than I expected it to be Armans, not one of thosecharacters that you think would launch a marvel franchis from what they hadhe's one of the better ones. But you know you think you think marvel beforeall the MC. You would think Spiderman, you think xmen you might go tofantastic for or o the Avenge Yourself Fox made sure we didn't but yeah they hadn't quite gotten to thatpoint with the xmen. Yet iron man was a really interesting choice because evenat the time, like comic books, Wis this Pon reallyone of the few times I'll bring this in like around two thousand and eight thecomic event. Civil war had just wrapped up. So even somebony like me, who isreading along enjoyed Ironman, did not like him at all. At that point, his character, his character in thecomics at that point was hed done some really dark things between my like he was the reasoncaptain America just got killed in the comic he and Mr Fantatilic head thor was gone.They cloned him and like made a robout of clawn to do whatever they want. Letit get out of Control and kill, fill foster. Who is the lith? He was the guyfrom Anne Manawoss, the other guy that could grow and then, let's see creating a prison in thenegative zone, sending a bunch of heros there without trial. There's a lot ofthings that he had done. Buhe basically turned into hit pretty much yeah. Thethe civil war in the comics was a little bit more there's a little moreis to a lot more people sided with cap than sideed ith iron man, which I thinkin the movie franchise. They did a little bit better, kept them more. Evenso, I can have that fight son yeah, so I could ade that fight scene, but itwas a really good Iwas, a really good jumping on point.The castthing was amazing and they did just enough little seeds, throwing inthroughout that movie that they say yeah. We could actually EXPANIS ontoeuniverse, yeah yeah, that you know that came out of the I mean technically.Hult was the first in the Nou, but that didn't make too much of a spash. Well,the angly one was so bad. They immediately were like not didn't happen,Hes Edward Orton, which was fine. It wasn't, you know, stand outstanding,but it was. It was like yeah cool, Marbl, moving lock, and then I re comeout. Everyone was like. Why is this good wis, his COMUC, with movie amazingyeah? We know now that we've had all these other ones. I don't think itstands out as one of the best ones, but at the you know at the time it wasoutstanding and it's screenbor. I think it's still one of the better poins. Ithink's definitely up there as one of the best it really is, but I don'tthink it would make a top five Sothin, maybe number sit. I don't know I haveto look at I have to. I have you have to print dout? The list bid have to getlike the magnets to like put the order in Erii. I cannot so overall is a character. I meaniromanis awesome. I mean Robert Down Jer knocks out of the park. I mean youdoesn't love seeing him. You know make...

...comments about thor. You know talkingin old English and just joking around and kind of being overconfident andlike I just love the first of injurs movie, his interactions with everybodybecause he's just so you know Sto coffy like like that, that's his characterand to your point I would say that he doesn't develop like a normal characterdevelops in a movie because he's kind of the sinner point of like a millionmovies and he really develops like a real person, in my opinion, so in myopinion, when a character developd in a movie. What like so, let's say,somebody struggles with you know, be an alcoholic or something in a movie rightlike they get to that one o point Nwy Star, so they get to the one pointwhere they're, like you know, I'm not going to take this drink, that one timeand band tha all of a sudden, they're a different person and they don't drinkanymore, whereas in real life your character, yet your real character arcin real life is a little more messy like you do change and you develop as aperson. But it's it's done a lot slower and so like, like my what I'm thinkingis like he transition from iron man, Onete two: You have you have a TonyStark who is just super over the top. I mean he's his arrogant, you knowclassic playboy whatever and he's all about getting the money. He hasn'treally thought of, like of like the moral, the morality of like what he'sdoing and then finally he does and he realizes he wants to do somethingbetter, but he's still kind of the same person. INS, iron man too comes out,and now he is the Superhero guy he's the one putting his life on the line,but he's still the kind of like arrogant like showoffy guy he'sactually become more arrogant, but yes, he's embraced the superero personaright and he thinks that's the thing that's going to change and now all of aSud I'm doing good things. I don't have to change this about me, an it's nottill he gets to the avengers that he really starts changing Anto your point.Yet one two and three he hasn't done a lot of changing, but over the course ofOll of iron man by the time he's getting to the end and he's doing theclassic. You know like, like we all know how it ends. You know you're inlove with a character and you're like Oh, my gosh and like, and he did. Hehas the little hic ups up the whole thing and he has tho part in in an ingame where it comes back and he's just anger. He's like you said we do thattogether and he's all mad at Captain America, so that part made senses arelapse and I think infidity Waran engame as where he actually showed thecharacter growth that they were there were. He showed the character growtthat they said he'd had in all the other movies, because, like IronmenEndto, the EIROM and one end of my Mento in Omien three, they act likehe's changed, but he hasn't so then he has to go through the same arch overand over again. But then an end game ho actually goes that ar he does get theangry thing you know, and it Wul except that time is justifact is like. I don'twant to lose his family that IVE created. I don't know if they're ethinking that he's changed, because no, no, I'm not saying the characters inthe film I'm saying they're they're trying to the movie is telling me that Tony haschanged yeah but the same. But then when we move the next movie instead ofshowing me him relapsing like it does an end game, it just restarts himwithout giving explanation. As for why he went back, you know, I'm sayingyouse say don't know if I'm following too well, but I would say that theyknew what they were doing as far as his character like like like baby likehereads me the wrong way. Oh O, it's not like the characters around him weretreating him like. Oh you finally figured it out. I mean fer up a wholething. We Talke about the Kobia courds I mean it's like. Do we want Ta allright Lement? I think it's actually a pretty natural thing, because t nextthing we ad up is captain America, you don't have to go on the dom, but yeahwe can actually talk about. We can go into civil war gn cap a little moreduring sequels and Songas. I talked about why I think Captain Mericaisgreat okay, I think H, I think, he's a character. Who is always they always keep themlikeable, that's true, but they, I think H. Ithink they do it. You know he's clearly there's never a time where I'm like.Have you made him bat? You made a bat choice or, like you made the rot? U Youmessed up cat, but he fails. But it's not the same this in him. You knowmaking the choice. You know the choice, W Yo, like no dont, Don' go in thatdoorside bt. You know, that's where I think: here's what maybe so angry aboutthe Secoy corts, okay, alltron happens. Okay toy start builds, ultron, getBruce Banner on board. You know the the whole thing glows up their face, andthen they have to go fix it and they do and a lot of people die along the way,cet the civil war, and they had that whole thing in where was it? I've seenyeah Wateveronam the STAAD is yeah. Turmoil is Dan Right. Plot Devices Stanright, so they go to pot devices, stand and they're trying to thort theseterrorists right. There's a bomb that's going to go off in a crowded, PazaSubscrib, which stows up the sky and it isn't taking out of the hotel onkilling people right and because of this they're like Oh, we need to rainin Superheroes, okay, first of all, people were going to die from that BOMregardless. That is true right. You don't blame. If a bomb disposal guydoesn't manage to the ES A bomb and it blows up and kills people, you don'tsay all right: the police need to be like th. The bomb disposal squad needsto be brought under t ther. They got T, you know, thatout of Control. Right Hoydon't say that, especially if he gets it away from the very large crowd onthe ground and into a right Antan. So so so you talk about unavoidablecasualties right that case those are unavoidable, casualties, so yeah. It's it's not good that people dide, but atthe time people were going to die that...

...wasn't. There was no part that wasscarlet, which is false right. Okay, now what you get Indoit, and so thenthey come up with Sacovia cords right and they're like okay, the superhereosout of control. We need them. We need to have a rain on them. Sure, okay,fine! I get that at some level at some of like it ly, governments would wantto control them. Tomy gets on board, saying yeah, we'retoo powerful we're too deated at a you, know, altrank. That was me, and at thatpoint why was every other hero not like you're right Tony Altron? That was youyou're, literally the only person who needs to sign these accords. Everyoneelse has not acted in a way that would lead to that has led to disastousconsequences. You're, the only one who's caused some sort of large Daldesins. Your argument that they should have only asked Tony to on ly, AccorEre, saying that I'm saying it doesn't make sense to anyone else. Sizes withTony So, especially because Tony is Tony, is utony uses, ultran and Sakovia,and the whole world does usus sa Kove as the reason why all the superheroesneed to be brought in control right. So Ha. That is a hundred percent t's onhids fall, and it was only Tony and Tony's the only one to blame. So it'scompletely unfair and out of line for anyone to say that cap, because Tonywas an idiot, I'm going to punish you, because you have only ever used yourpowers any standup way. So so I can tell you that, from what the movie is trying to do,the movie tries to solve all of those problems that you're talking aboutwhether it does a good job or not, is to be seen, and it's really up to you.But this is why the movie starts off with with with Tony, not even beinginvolved in that first se mean Tony is off having his feelings kind of stirredup by that woman at his conference. It's like he killed my son and he's noteven involved in in that yeah and he should said you're right. I killed yourson, not any of these other people who tried to stop that and in a damp goodjob, stopping altern e killing, everyone sure, but but like whose faultwas it that all these ships fell out of the sky and not necessarily who bolt?Is it because, because again, I know the point you're making, but also Imean it's pretty self evident, even in our real world that when things happen,you can be like okay well. This is one thing I you know like like it couldhave been worse and t like people use that to prop up their agendas and whatthey were thinking re. I recognize that, but you would think the othersuperteroes again. I understand why they had it kind of fifty fifty split,so we could have the great fight it just doesn't make sense from acharacter standpoint, why anyone it's the same thing: ininjustice right,Superman, snaps and s like I'm, going to take over the world the heroes whoside with him. It makes no sense. It makes sense from a Oh he's. Just Goinnohave safe Gardbu when he starts executing people, then you're, likeokay, Superman, what the heck! What the heck is this? Well, I think in themovie part of the reason people side with and they don't give cap thebenefit of the doubt immediately. Is the winter soldier coming back and theyframe up that assassination that bombing really quickly for the wintersoldier and cab goes off no he's innocent, I'm going to go, bring him inmyself, there's all this political stuff going on. So I think that's whysome of the people kind of shy away. They're like well cap yeahtony's, beenreckless but KAP's kind of being reckless right now too, and then Ithink some of the reason- maybe it's not even sigting with Tony, but some ofthe people that stay with him like the scarlet or not Scottar Wich,black widow, Natasha she's, being a good soldier. He Got Rodi. Who is youknow, he's there's the military mortabls foras in Cherter, Firo Rody. Iget I like Rodi, an toy like vision and SC, especially scarlet wit, but it thehuge heres. What I'll say is is those the two main cariages you have to askyourself. Why is it that we want to actually change now? I agree with you.They were doing this, so there'd be a big fight at the end, but then theygould do a good job. It's putting them up and they at least make an attempt tohave each of those character and characters rationalize. Why they did it?It's not like Ita. I just I understand that they did that. I just think it was it stretched my it stretch, e limits ofwhite. I was willing to blieve those characters. Wouldn't do, but even inthat, like it was cool to see characters like the Falcon, be like heyweren't you just the woman. A little while ago, I told the government tokiss her at's like look what and she's going well listen like. I know this 'stnot like me, but I'm I I'm playing the terrain and so like yeah, the full timeyou're watching you cound, be thinking e xacty. What you're thinking which isunderstandable, was yeahtto separate the gang, but at least the movie isattempting and doing a decent job ad s still enjoy the Modon I stilto themovie. I just really don't think Tony got the proper comupante for creatingultron right. He got like a a marginal sleck on the rist, which was theSacovia cort war, then got dropped igh. I don't know e did' e get dropped,they never talkd about t they just l give them s Haersto guy andthe kind ofall stuff that the IDA of the Acovcors, the idea that everyone that all thepeople would get behind this right, the like the citizenry, is behind this. TheSACOGA cords, as far as they show us, the citizenry, is for the SACOVIA cordsright, th, the regular joes.

What the hell happened in New York,where are the regular joes whov got their asses saved by you know, aliensattacked who stopped it. The Avenger stopped it so at some level will bt,but even even at the end of that movie, what you get you get a mixed reactionfrom everybody going. I don't know how I feel about this. Oh, I don't feelsafe. The fact that they're here in and then vision, Echos tot and says thefact that we're here in vice chaos, you know and its all, these people are kindof feeling that they're, like esaes lik, Ha Different Xare. They just acceptAING, more bottles on okayaydbcausebut, that's just wrong. They didn't inviteany of this stuff here and that's wine. THAT'S A lot ing! A lot of the wholecontrol, the superhero things. That's a line that people like to throw out is:Oh, you know if you weren't here they wouldn't be here, but that's not how itisn't that true! I was no! It's really not! No, I will say you know we'retaking like Wat going into the I'll. Take it back intothe real world. Just looking at media and things. Do People always reallyreact rationalkay, or do they just want to be in control? I woull grant youthat, but you wouldn't get everyone on this issue saying Oh yeah. We need tocontrol superheroes, I'm not saying you wouldn't get anybody. In fact you wouldin fact the government would always be like we need to have control over thesesuperhearos because they're going to be hers, Theyre recressing up ar an howwe're doing right, because if veryy potential thread to our powers, sogovernments are always going to want to have control of the superheroes. Butthe idea that I think it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. The people would getbehind it and not saying TEX writers. Okay, so we have anti war people rightin like Vietnamwar, okay right that made a lot of sense. If we were in theVietnam War, forshing sketchy reasons, yeah right so makes a lot of sense.Thot people might protest that even when Yo get to like world war, twothere's still some people who might be like we should be fighting this war.Although you know after Japan attacked those voices kind of disappearedsomewhat and most people were just fine with being a more if we get invaded. Noone is going to be like these soldiers are out of control right, so the I justand again its not it's, not just civil war. Every every single we need toreign inte power of the superheroes leans on this idea that they're somehow causing the or invitingthe bad things at or causing the bad things that happen. But the reality isthey're not, and if they weren't there you would get host little bitle. Let megive you kind of example, so let's say that they were all in a differentplanet. There's Loky attacker in that case. Yes,because that's where the test eract was no. They wouldn't that he was after thetest right. Loki. First of all, Loki is not chasing down the adventers. Lo Shywas chacking chasing them, a Guffin that was on earth, so on some sense. Okay, if you have likeoh here's this this person, I, if the persons, if the bad guys at genda, isjust to kill the hero, then yeah it matters where they are locationally,but that's not ever the super villains. SGOAL SUPERVIN's goal is to seize powerand right. Rigkie Goee, like Gos to the government, says bow down to me. Ysituation. T at the earth was just kind of like it was just kind of the he didn't come to conquer earth. No, hecame to get the test erect. Yes, so people we lie a PE, a been so all thisbusiness somewhere else. All this supernatural stuff is literallydestroyling and killing Al of us. We almost blew up New York City. I don'tcare who's on whose side we don't know e again, but that's Wen, Shi Foi, knower telling that was the again. That was the MGUFFIN. You remove them a Guffinand sure that threat goes away, but that's that's just the Avenger Starrright, if you think about all the other threats. So, like Oba Dia, the wholeweapons thing, weapons development thing you think about: Okay, IM, N, two,that's a revenge plot yeah! I man, three, not a revenge. Bult right he'sstill going to sees power, the TERRORIS, the manwor of the Mandalorian, themanering terish plots still happeen, regardless of whether Iman is there ornot. Okay, because Oh so, some of those were revengefocused right winter soldier. If CAP's, not there they're still he going to usethe winter soldier so t the fact that he's there to stopit and to be that nemesis doesn't affect their goals. It just impeavetheir goals, their goals, weren't centered. On that again, in some of themovies, they absolutely were civil war. It was so in that case you, but ofcourse that's like you want to go down that Riban hold what started this wholechain. It was Tony Stark he's the only one who needs to be breineded. Ofcourse they all play for the same team and if you go all the way, oand go allthe way back down the rabbit hole. Two avengers the same shady worldgovernments that are talking about the Scovia cores theyre way to stop the alien threat was hey,let's nuke New York right, so so so I'm I have no. I take no umbradge with themusing that as a plot device right. I just find it annoying that that's theonly pat that ice anyone can come up with to divide well heroes. What Ithink what really happened there is and we'll talk about the DCU dce? U, and alittle bit is they were going to do ith their captain, America movie, RobertDunne Junor, wanted to do more iron man,...

...you wanted to make more money and theyannounced matmanve Superman, and so they were like okay. Well, weneed to make this into civil war Somil war in the comics. Is this whole thingabout like? Should we reveal there is a huge it outer thats about totalinties,totally teenage superheoes Faul they blow up a school like in a battletotally their fault. It's a little more understandable, it's all about secretidentities. They had nothing like that to build into the mcu. There was no bigconflict that they could really have be ready for me to like speak out of bothsides of my mouth, an xthree where they, like. That's the Mutan Registration Act,I'm totally O'm bored with that. So I'm, okay with I'm, okay, with it being like.We need to keep tabs on people right, because that was ex one that was AC.Three was the Mutan registration. Noxthree was let's, let's car to theMusi whats exone meeting retostrection. Yes, it's been a long time as e,whichever one it was t k. The point of that was now. Obviously people werelike Oh you're, right toreght. It was you now people ere, like Oh that's,going to be used for discrimination which yeah it could be use fordiscrimination, but at the same time and people compared it to like to race,okay, but having a different skin tone is not the same as being able todestroy a building by looking at it. You need a license for a car. You needa license for a gun, because these things are dangerous and you shouldn'tbe allowed to have it until you can prove that you can use it safely. So,at some level you know there needs to be a system in place, which is what wasI. What is what was what Charles Exavier was intending to do was to CR,create a safe space remutes to explore their powers right, and you knowthere's a way to do it that doesn't involve concentration camps right. TheWay to do it is say: Okay e know your child is a mutent so and when you knowwhen they are one or if they manifest of Paes before they, you need to takethemin for testing will catagrize their powers into you know they have. Theyhave power levels and to such and such a level, and if there are such and sucha level that they have to attend XYC school the same way, you would do anykind of special needs. Education right. You have system set up for that. NotI'm not again. THAT'S A bad! I'm not trying to compare special meeds withsuperpower. Here e Yo Right: the idea is that you have this infrastructure,where my child has certain needs, and we have these intrastructures w right.We test for those at early ages. We do genetic testing, we do. You know who do other tests to see? Does YourChild Have Down Syndrome as your child have a mental disability and if they dowe're going to put them into P, programs are going to help them withthose thingss Toslex and your child? You know create fire. Can your trialturn into water? Can you can you child, but, though, probably like to play forcreating like and a they d a good job an x one is that they, they least dropyou into universe, where everybody was scared of them already? Oh sure I hv.The problem is that they wor, and I can't that late because were lying. Iget a O mut likes an that peole, okay, and this s the same thing that happensin in in like the Harry Parter Universe, atevery universe, where there are there's like a special class of Humanis.There's always always this huge discrimination of us for system, whichI think is way overplayed, yes, yeah. No, it absolutel would be some, but alot of people would bee like that is so cool Rt. You could cris Evero watchesxo. My friend is tha person with firehand oces x to and when, like BobbyDrake, like touches the water and freezes it in the mom just like freaksout and runs away you're like o everyone. Why kitding you just o aeverdoit again sow my drink. Yes, so that's so cool, but but I mean at leastit's consistent with the idea that, like people are a little unsettled bythis and like we have no way to go off that we can always put ourselves inlike tha. I would be the righteous one shoes, but like sure, we will neverknow how the world would react to a bunch of people that could all of asudden like do really creepy and weird things. Yeah. Have you ever been aroundmagicians, those areound real in the day? Oh, theyare real and likeyou have to see. I think, we've. I don't know that I'vedone a great job as a moderator on this one, because I feel like yeah, Hatalongta go fast, es, go fast, fat, all right, so quickfor, instead of going like justcharacter by character. What are some of the other characters? You guyswanted to talk about, maybe or movies I thought Auntman was a really fun breakfrom. It was getting the the more marvels getting kind of formulae, kindof mononnous. They were like all right. It's time, I watched oceans, eleven,let's do a heist, and so I thought I would mit I I will say that, like PaulRod is just the most likeable yeah he'slike on the Li as soon as it waslike he's Ae man, I'm like I don't't care how this movie is like it's goingto be amazing. Just because it hand I didn't think the first one was kind oflike it was just your traditional, like hey you're, fighting like anotherversion of yourself and like like, but they framed it as a heist which made itwhich made it fun. Yeah I mean I don't o just can get away from the AV to fihta dark reflection of yourself will say that ust cant, the extra characters inantman are the greatest. Oh Yeah, R, the secondary Cathi entotay, are aphenomenos ti. Mait IING, the Ra fom...

...hes, exactly that' the asws, hisHispanic Friend, oh the drunk history. Almost ye they still need to do Louisexplains the entire MC yeah yeah. That's that's that's what I want otherthan Auntman, Dr Strangeis. Obviously a likable character, dotr Strangis, goodhe's essentially- and I love it so like alwas hard Bresse, not to pick infinitywars, my favorite movie, just because it has the same thing as civil war does,with the characters coming together to have 't met each other yetyeah. Youjust get a ton of that. It's so good. The Guardians Meeting you know Tony andDr Strange and Spiderman, and all these and Spiderman meeting docor strange andfor leading doctors Straititso, it's all good and and when doctor strangeand Tony have their little interaction. It's just perfect, because they'reessentially the same character. Dr Strange is like the most successfulbadass surgeon. I mean he is just like hs he'se total, like duchbag male, likedominant kind of character, and he gets humble and he gets these powers, thesekind of the same guy, like he's kind of a little like like overconfident, butnow he's a whis and you have Tony Ameer as you've explained you know. Is it this superhero, but he's still kind ofhis Arrogan en he's always going to call t with a quip and Dr String Isttrying to do the same thing and it's just so like they're, both so good likemaking fun each other. They met each other, an play off, esod Tha Thot. Thatwas Probay SOM, but I love Dr Black Panther was great, although so the theproblem I had with by Panther was, I was on the fillinside right up, untillhe was like, and so let's murder all white. He wait. That's me! Don't dothat. I was. I was like no he's totally right. Wat Conda you are sitting on youare, I would say they had a moral obligation to help the countries aroundthem and they didn't- and I understand why theywere like whell, we don't wantI id what even was it ther like we want to stick to ourselves because we don'twant to be exploited, like there's a difference between opening yourselfs toexploitation and helping the people next to you who are dying of malariaand it's really hard to be exploited when you have a giant force fieldaround your entire country, right yeah, so there's such a powerful nation right,I would say they don't I gro o the real world, I would say the US as the US andChina. Although all the ga nations, I would say, have an obligation to helpdeveloping countries, because we can provide funds that they need to buildinfrastructure to actually get to popl in it's hard to introduce an entirenation that you're keeping invisible. No, no I get is like shield again lait.Tony S, get it for plot reasons, yeah. I just think it's bizarre to me andthen okay, the other bizarre thing to me is- and I get why they did it forlike plot reasons and for framing reasons where they mirrored thebeginning. In the end with he opened the thing in the US and they're likewe're going to help out compton and that's great, but I really feel likethe first thing they should have opened up is in the destitute nations rightnext door to them. Yeah Yeah. It was kind of like an you even have a scenewhere, like seemingly a random person, that's not in Waconda, like alike alittle little African kid is like watching a spaciet Li into the forcefield and you're like WHO's. He Te triits Ien, just kind of like we hatspaceships fly over all the time, O, don't know the hew hey go. They justfly into the mountain of thand EI disappeared and it's like what ir thenone of them speaking UF English, to be like hey like world, there's, there's alot going on here. I think I think thati as still supposed to be part of aCONDA. I think they have that you know that surrounding tha yeah thosevillages on the outskirts like where they kill the winter soldier yeah. Soso so whith Michael B, Jordan was like Yo. This is messed up, yeah. No, weneed to be helping all the you needto be helping all the oppressed blackpeople and hi's like right. Hon Y, a now I as E, was like, and to do thatwe're going to kill everyone else like no, that's, not the right answer. He'sgot o like they've got like infinite everything there like they have this,this metal material. That's also like an AI organism that also heals people.If you make it into balls, Oh and if we want to talk about strong femalecharacters, I thought Black Panther had the best strong female characters. OhYeah Tin, the most likeable yeah. They Wurd really talk about the charactersthat you ust. I otolay. I think they I think I like. I want to see a movieabout them, yeah, because Chappi Bozman was great, but really I think theystole the show A. I thought they were fantastic yeah. She like, like hislittle sister, is just like super enjoyable because she's, you knowmaking quips and stuff but she's, also a geniun sin and like an like 's she's,a strong character whateverahedidn't just like I don't know they didn't justsit there and and and he's not, and they did a great job having strongfemal characters that weren't, you know stepping on all the men like they're,both and power, both Gaso and and they did a really good job. Flushing up BacPanther of like he's, yeah, he's kind of a pampered prince, which is why heends up coming to heads with what is the name of the actual villain's name:com, longer, kill, pocutor right hands, O ban Hary SOMONGER, because Kil mongerright to have his traumatic backstory...

...in? Was It comped? It wasn't compen, hewei it Wacalle Wasit Oakland in the United Statesit was in Thea, prettysure was in California, but anyway, you're ad. He, you know he grew up inthe hood. He had that that he had the black Americanexperience and that shaped him in a very negative way right becausehis you know he wants to fight injustice, but then, because of h, hisgoing into the army and going into the assasson business. The only way heknows how to fight injustice is with is with violence and then by Panther issitting on Ma, CONAN throne, saying yeah. We see the injustice, but wevalue our security more than that, and then him having to come to terms withthe fact that the injustice is so bad. That killmonger is willing to do allthese things, to see that his people aren't depressed anymore worldwide, andthen you know the resolution is okay, you're right we're going to help thepeople who were not going to do it by killing everyone else and there's a lotof little things with the withoutnolike Black Panther was a good movie, butcome longer really locked out in the fact that one Tochala didn't explainwhen he came back to his head security guy that you know he promised he wasgoing to bring back claw and the only reason he didn't was. He captured himand then killmongar broke him out, yeah tha and that confused me so yeah hisplan to get into Baconda. He had claw. So there were a lot of reallyconvenient things where it's like link, kill. Honger did walk into Acondaanybody he ran into. Could 't just be like hey dude, stop your in jail notigthat had beef with. You know that abet with Tachala an was like. Oh, likeyou're here. Take the throon all right come this way and it was like reallylike that's what you did. You just walked right in and then that was itlike you're just sitting on the thrown out af you cann like there are a lot ofconvenient things. It also just kind of felt like I was watching telinking yeahI mean it was. It was very lanking as that's a good movie, so I'm not playingYe. No, it was it was entertaining. It was good. It was a better live action.The Lin King Than Dout, so my favorite character, marvelcharacter is always been spiderman so and we can talk in a Spiderman baseepisode more about. You are yeah we're going to divote a whole episode,different versions, but I really enjoyed the mcu version. I like therelationship, he builds Wi, Tony startn N, a different character for the mostpart than the one you have in the comics, but it does manage to capture a lot of the really fun stuffabout s, capters, that core of Spiderman quits, because he's reallynervous. It's kind of nervous energy, which I think Tum Holland Os. A reallygood job of portraying and there and of course he looks like he's ten so thathelps and they're able to build that fathers son relationship with iron manreally quickly, which is something again when our men was. He did the ironman movie in the civil war thing he had just built that relationship with PeterBarker and then totally betrayed I. So it was one of those things. Butlet's see we talked about the guardians a little bit already. We kind of talkedabout aunt man, the Wass Weve talked about Captain Marvel for a little bit, Ithink, and we've kind of touched on it. Since then, I think they just reallyone of the things I had with Captain Marvel. Is She wasn't really needed foren game? They had a lot of really strong female characters that they culesplain. Why why what his name lost his offis youere talking about it was a catH, pretty believable. I have several cats and they cod play your ie out orany time, but then they already had and the were gettingready to get into this. I think with the next Dr Strange Movie, the scarletwhich envision TV show, but scarlettwitch is crazy, powerful, yeaheah and she can in a way that, without trying to get into too much is,can be incredibly creepy. So I think- and I think we're about to delve intothat in the movies and stuff did they explain why she has her powrs. I don'tremember that she was experimented on with her brother with the with the with the sincinity Ston Tha,okay, which is the which is she's not magnetos. Are they going no REC on thatitem? Ho e HOS daughter Fo that int CSE tats the after my quicksovers collar,which are actually my ninas babies, yeah, silver and Scarlett, which areAur maximovs and the reason t r their maximos is because that's technicallymagnens last tame. So right they it's funny when age of Altron came out was rightwhen Xmen Ri, Daa, pastor FA fantastic had to Syea to so sa Spece Ays tefuture Pastquis Solon was definitely Ba, as he's one of the coolest Carret andthat seenas been recreated like nine billion times now and every time theyhave speech to movie. That scene was just brilliant, O now good and that'swhy quicksilver didn't survive. Ahof Oltron yeah, like the only reason, he's Waso, yeah, Wonda and WantonpoScottarwitch and quick silver. They are...

...supposed to be magnitos children, butaround that same time the coms are like: Oh, no well, maybe they're in humans orsomething we don't like talking about Mutans, because we can't Human Yahlthose guys. Well, they I don't think the movie is ever going to come out.They made a TV show that we don't admit exists did O ever get air. Oh Yeah, Igot arid, it was in Imax and it was what is is not good. Theinhumans TVshow o remember that spun out of agents. Everyone is blacked it out. Wel The as I know, agents of Shi diddid in Human Li. Yes, where that's where all the people the interact withget their power. I think agents have showed one of the greatest things aboutit in it was it's had a rocky Tan, its not even Tean Canat Woi. What yeah theykind of have done. The time travel all ternative time LG and they couldn'treally talk about in game or anythingokay. So I haven't so the lastage, and I don't want season, I'm an. I think it's four five they're in thematrix yeah. So THAT'S THE SEASON IMENS! I don't spoil iything the point that Ijust love that so just real quick on ages e shield. I love that they madegrant such a Dick Sot a patable character, and then they found a way tokeep him as the villain, even when it wasn't technically the same person. Iwas like. Okay, that's well done! Well, that's fun because it's a face that Ihate and but he's not the same character and I was hey. They think theactors like ams, looking paid, yeah O win win and I was going to say thehighlight of that show was actually when they were. They started outsinking them up to the movies and they did in little ways until CaptainAmerica, the wonter. So if yeah, if you're watching that show alongsidewhen they did the Hydra reveal and they destroyed Chiel yeah, it was reallygood and then it's been a roller coaster, yeah or and ever since, butand apparently that's coming back with a fully time. Travel focus season,they're about to finish it out. Hol Bo, ' They're like legs tomorrow we coul dothat yeah. Now we're moving into were spandingINDTO, all kinds of stuff you know Disney plus. For me, looking at Netflix shows, I don't think we'regoing to claim anymore because I think they'se still Gono be get raks thedaredevil again soon. Their devil is so good. We're not going to touch on that.THAT'S NOT YEAH! IT'S NOT ASIDET! It's a different is good. He was supposed tobe, but you know right, sissies and things and then et your crap togethermarvel yeah, but we're moving now everything's owned by Disney almostentirely and we're going to be moving into all kinds of stuff. She harmansLookin the air again moonnight. Well, I think we, you know we got a couple olike fenagle himself back it y basically call people and cried about it and I' Ho cal te cry. I woulddo whatever o you want. I wanted me to do. Yeah, please Fox, please Gagom Fox. Is it Fox? I I Sony for that. I'M SORRYISNEY ONS Fox! Now, that's why we can do Muis. Okay, that's pretty much! That's most! Whatwe had you had at the end versus the CU, which I will say part of the reason Ithink miss marvell are not miss marble. That's the TV show that's coming out.Captain Marvell ended up. Getting pushed to the forefront is because oneof the things one to see you did do right is they made the first femalesuperhero movie and they did a good job yeah, and I saw a really interestingcomparison between wonder, woman and and Captain Marvele, because Thaid,because they were looking at an they're like you know: Okay, neither woman,neither characteris really ever in any danger, because they're, both sopowerful yeah. Arguably you know aries could have beat her, but it was a finalboss, she's not going to Git me by Arye like yeah. It's a. We know, she'sGOINGTA win, but wonder woman still undergoes an interesting Ark becauseshe has to deal with man's world and Seei. How bad man's world is andwondering? Is it still worth saving man's world right, and so she still hada huge struggle where, as Captain Marvelle was like, you need to stopbeing emotional. When was she emotional? You know she's explained to me when shewas a Mokin in a way she looked like her face has been botop and again I'mreally not trying to hate on Bree Warrson. It's not because HEU's a woman,I Love Tho Riting, O o. well, your Wann was fantastic, no okay, so I think thatwonder, woman kind of cater marrel just got o boring. She reflects a little bito Black Panther in her movie, where it's like you have like, like ut theconflict, just within her, as opposed to two different characters, have yeahdifferent opinion. Yeah. Think CAU UM on Complix is within her exacesay n.The started to love someon bl in this broken world, but I also could justkind of like stay in my safe place, an in my world and not get hurt by beinghere. Well, it wasn't even like the not getting hurt. It was well e Mo no idea.No, I don't mean yeah. The whole idea was you know her mom's like man's look atwhat they're doing they're horrible they're, not worth saving lentem. Ilike each other out right and so she's like no, we have to save thim and thenshe goes like Oh wait. This is way worse than I thought yeah and to decide.Is it actually worth saving and she ends up deciding? It is thanks. Good Y,it's TUK. It's also hard to create a character that might notsucceed indoing that. When that's the mean when...

...that's the main, like tustling pointwhen it's like, are you going to say them? Are you not point to then there'slike a second wave of like okay, a decided to save them? Oh, are you gonlike? Can you save them, or can you not like? Is there going to Ein a point to,and usually that's the that second one at least I think like is, I think, thethe best. So one of T, my one of there's, this book series that was myfavorite book series right up until the end had one of the trashest endings ofall time, calld, the pendragon series or ten books, and it's based on thisidea that there are ten different worlds that are all linked together andall their destinies are like tied together. It's more complicated in that, butbasically this kid ends up being. I don't remember exactlyhow he got succered into it or exactly the reason why, but he's basically likeso this he's a person who can travel between the different worlds, and so heand the main villain are fighting over these turning points. So each world islike approaching a turning point: that's going to decide whether it goestowards a good, ending or a bandending. Essentially that's being reductive bitthis. Essentially it and so you'e going tog. The first couple books and youknow, he's fighting with the Baggay buthe ends of winning and the secondbook and Hes spiting in goes the next planet and he's fighting with bad guyand the ends of winning, and he goes t the next planet and the fourth bookyou're like all right, I figure out, and then he fightin, the back and thebag guy wins and he loses and hea there's no do overlike there's. No, he can't do a time highst and go fix this, and so then,from that point on, it is totally up in the air whether he's going to win orlose, and so after that point after he, after the book that ends on a bummerwhere it's like, you just got your but kicked and that world's gone you losethat world forever. It's all gone, all the people are gone, you've lost and from that point on, it gets reallyinteresting because you don't know to like almost the George Ar Martin thing,where you don't know what character ise going ta live. You don't know, youthink. Obviously Ye's got Ta win in the end, but how is he going to win? Hestarted losing and it what does winning look like e saving all of them or doesit right lose? And what I end up looking like was. He became one withthe universe. It was the DICA I don't want to get into it at a be so man, sno worse to Io. It was like and ended on. The nint book was like. Oh my gosh.What's going to happen in the ten pop was like when I cry well, but but so empire.Does that right? It ends on that Downer note of how are they going to get outof this like you're, assuming in the end the good guys are going to win, butit ends on that bummer note infinity war did that too. We know that theywere going to somehow bring people back, but how are they going to do it? What'sit going to cost them so so wonderwoman did that in a way within one movie ofWe know, she's Goinna win whatever fight she gets into, but what's itgoing to cost her where, as Captain Marvel was what's the cost, ther was nocost. The cost was getting emotional, which her only emotion was I'm a littleangry GE, but that wasn't that emotional, like she's and she's, justlitera she's literally a jet engine. That's all she is as a Ceneng becomeone with Agita, checkege woill be proud and I'll say like talking about itversus the DC. U and kind of as a rabbub. I think part of the reason whythe mcu as worked and the DC Universe is not is because the mcu reallyembraced from the first startment from iron man, where they started shewlingseeds with a different things, because they really embrace how comic books aremade where you've got all these different stories with the same withsimilar characters, the same characters put taking place in the same world andthey're going separately, but every once in a while. They converge a littlebit now that form of storytelling. When you do it every month can lead to somepretty terrible stories. An the I would have been really selective with themovies, but they really embrace kind of agoofiness kind of that everything's happening all at once and for movies.Honestly, that's probably one of the first times you've had well here's thisconcurrent story and it's not just a spin off here's another movie, that'shappening the same universe, and this is happening over here and they're kindof you can kind of see him overlap just a tiny bit, but until avengers theydidn't overlap and what DC tried to do is hey. We had a superman movie, let'sdo the movie, where they two characters overlap and we'll talk about that morein the future bat AV, supermaner yeah. We us there. We definitely need to talkabout that, but so, if I were to boil it down to the one thing that marbledid writ, that DC did wrong is marvel was like we're, making CONMEC Qot,movents Uhuh, and so they were comic cookie DC and I think they shotthemselves in the foot because of how good Nolan's Batmentralogy was yeah.Now vamately was very intentionally grounded in reality to some extentright and he put the he this price. Let's be punche through concrete okay,there was a little bit of yeah called magical realism or you know stretchinoos very much great. It was very much based in realism, which okay ban shouldhave been the intelligent won and not going to go thater, but the problem wasthen when, when they're trying to watch their dce they're like okay, this iswhat people want. They want gritty, serious realism and then they madeSuperman Gritty. Serious Brit Superman is a fairy heikes for truth, justice.An American way in his underpants e a...

...there was a horribway Marr Sho with thefower Haf to America, with power of fit so try to make superman greet, which isnot to say, supermake can't have serious moments. Injustice shows us howto vow a serious superman thing, but you can't just have superman start offbeing like well, I would say I would say, on top of the fact that Nolan Asolexlither was just today, did they ever read a comic orwatch them think or understand anything about LEX wite he's not the joker. Ithink they were trying to invent him as like a modern day like Texieo Obsesse,with himself obsessed with power, wejus much more accessible, fon, thesocialalso, calculating logical and crude, and he had airter. It's not avillain to be a villain. Li is a villain. Primari ill curkehe wantspower, but hi's primarmoi motivation, agains superman. Is He Sakovi courtthin? He just doesn't trust superman right, like he's. Actually a good guyind a lot of these bigger justice league movies, where he realizes allright. I need a team up with you guys because he really doesn't care aboutabout metropolis. He just think that he's the best ting to Lee he just wantsto come hone with Ranac can become God. He cares enough about the world to knowthat he can't really rule over it or have power over it if it gets destroyed. No Yeah, I think the comparing the twoon top of the fact that these came n in the light in the shadow of Nolan'sexcellent depiction. F, a Batman O that, and instead of just saying, oh likelike, we can't really like, let's totally it like, we've got ta move in anew direction from from those like completely. It was just like rightafter that they're like. Let's how quickly can we get to doing like anAvenger style movie on our side, and it was just like? Let's just do it now,let's we'll create one movie that kind of introduces all these characters in aweird like H, security aidea. They did it back when then, then, we'll spreadout and make them all their individual movies. Whens is the flash movie comingout yeah that also. It also made no sense to me that they were like here'sa completely separate flash when the FLASHET THEY HAD ON TV at that pointwas excellent and now they're all in the same universe, because they've donea crossover o we nowit ohlike the same multiter. Guess I don't know it's it's difficult just because to H, I think they have more characters.I don't know that that are just like they're a little too so you livelike green lantern right like is he a part of the main core of the JusticeLeyes? Yes, I, like he's not even there at all like like you, have you havesyboard, who is a huge character? Thef justice leaves and team tites as far asI so he's also e, just chowed up in the just stad in way better and do patrolthere's like like he's not anywhere else to be seen. He hasn't had his ownmovie same thing with the flash and so like. It's just bizarre, like it'sweird, to not be able to latch on to really characters that have developedand you like, because you, like you, know the characters but, like I don'tknow they jus did such a bad job and I think the thing is like the mainaudience had not gotten movies. They hadn't gotten a chance to latch on toany these characters and the ones that fans were really going to look atSuperman, Batman, ciar, er, really recognizable like the Superman, that'llsnap, a person's neck, and then we'll have a movie where he has like fourscenes of dialogue and just kind of mopes around the whole time orHashsakor yeah. And then you know the Badman little. If that wasn't the mostporly written pot point you knowall, which I thought this their fight, Ithought was pretty Goo I wet, but goodness graceof. If that wasn't thedumbest plot point I'e ever seen in a movie but we're running over stuff.That's right! I will say if you watch the extended version of the movie, it'snot a much better movie, but it makes for Batmanvie Superman. They actuallyedited out a lot of the things that make lex sluthor plot, make sense,there's all these explanations of like him, paying the people to brand thebrand people with the bat symbol and all that kind of stuff to make supermanand Batman anger with each other that they just cut out of the movie and they left in the nightmare scenefor justice league. You know that nobody Wahes Le Know, what's goingon. It's me, you grogess. If you are Olike, what is that btwe'll explain inseven movies? Maybe unless we make one more in which it's a whole thing, Ousugets Hansl thit's a bad direction. You got to doit in the opposite: Direct yea, yeah, payoffs and movies. Later on. You can'thave that payoff in the first movie, and it's like watch seven more moviesto see how this pays. It ligket like no like, like the shees yeah, so an they to be fair to the DC universe.They they course corrected. So wonder women while it had a lot of seriousstuff in it had that lighthearted. This is a comic book tone to it. I will sayone last thing and Ien di apparently id Havee, seen with DC and even marvelafter after the dark night trilogy, which is all they also botch Tedocasquad, so bat of the Ri booting that instantly even marvel after the dark nigetrilogy.They started out. Hey people liked this grounded approach. Let's start withiron man, he can build a suit and then...

...we go to the halk that's kind ofscience. BACE was I wait before the Hole Yep. It was before the incrediblecawe my Bern Emai, and then you know from there t. Thenthey move after two iron man movies. They move into thor and even at thatpoint, they're like yeah, well magic science, it's kind of just the samething yeah and then we're just going to ignore that later on, we introduce DrString and at that point, people were too interested in it and they did sucha good job that owas wantand to that it was just like. Then they introduced thetalking raccoon people loved it they're like yeah. We can do whatever we eatthat point we got ar to Igot you FSO yeah. So that is the endof our show today. Thank you for F R for tuning in. Let us know what o youthink. What was your favorite marvel movie? You know what marvel do right.That DC did wrong. What do we leave out? WHAT DARE WE MESS? Yeah? Obviously Ithink I would, I would say, need to go to explain yourself. I think we gotinto the what I think what you guys disagree on Yeah. So thanks for joining us we'll be onhere next week and looking forward to talking about some more movie topics,yeah movie topics, I think I would like todo a podcast on video wern video games e. let's see video games Aovia, butyeah you can reach US twitter at dearly, debated dearly debated at GMO thatconfent want to shoot us an email greg. Where can people find you? You can findme on facebook chapter one films, O Indy chapter, one films, Oane. You canalso find me my on Line my website chapter. One films do bizz and checkour stuff out yeah. You can find mee at Holy Golem Holyho Lem, like the POKIMON.All right- and you can find me at at comic exile on twitter and facebook andcomic exilecom. If you want to hear me, talk a little bit more about more thecomic book side of things and I'm definitely me doing into the mcu inmore detail there in the future too. All right as all right till next time.

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