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Dearly Debated
Dearly Debated

Episode 1 · 1 year ago

Episode 1 - We Gottem, R2

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Greg and Nathanael are talking Star Wars and... lose a little bit of self-control. Sequel trilogy sucks, y'all!

Ow, my father didn't fight in the wars.He was an avigator on a spice, Fretera uctold you he didn't home with yourfather's ideal, O he shouldsher Otn involved you foughtn the clon wars. I was once te Jedi night the same asyour father. Wis iknoidont Lie Corse Rouh and irritated an IT geteverywhere. He was the best stop hider in thegalaxy, a a cunning warrior e. What did you say all right? Everybody welcome to episode,one of the dearly debated where you are entitled to your opinion, even ifyou're wrong- and I am your cohost Greg Prince- and I am your other co hostNathaniel Pp Levinson PP is right because today we're talkingabout Star Wars, which I know is a super broad topic and we probablyshould have maybe narrowed this down a little better oinsteadwelokay kind of. I GUESS YOUCOUN say: We've narrowed t down that we're only talking about the the E H,man movies, the main night hi, the Skywalker Song Right, and we that's allman movie yeah that'Ol, I mean that's true, O Jon, solow and rogue one be ifyou consider all the other crap that you could consider. Okay, that's true!There's a pretty big expani know Eten, either way: they're, probably Goinnathey're, going to they're going to certainly be more star wars. Episodesin the future. We just thought star wars such a hot topic, but we're bothpretty passionate about it. That'd be a fun, a fun way to start it off, so yeahwe're going to start off with star bars. So I have some stories from this weeken history. This is a segment I'm going to call this week in history. Maybe soI'm Goinna I'm going to tell you what happened this week in history and allthis is definitely one hundred percent truthful. So this week in history, theRed Cross is founded by Clar, baron, ND and Eihthudre, and eighty one it wasnamed for a tattoo that people would get to indicate that she had personallytreated them. Charles Linburg completed the first soo nonstop transatlanticflightness plan, the spirit of Saint Louis, which was named after he gotsponsored by Annaser Bush. He celebrated his landing by Shok, gettinga Budweiser and saying I am King of the sky, and this is the King of Beers,five years late en Thouan, nine hundred and tirty two Amelia airport. Again inthis week, interestinn enough Amelia airhard became the first woman tocomplete a solo, nonstop Atlantic flight and celebration. She dumped abunwiser undor the ground, sgling back a shot, a whiskey and declared herselfempress of the sky in the moon. What is wrong? Lindbird was later seen packing a crowninto a box addressed to air hard muttering. She got you this time.Shucki, but I'll be first to Mars. Today also marks the five hundredhundredth anniversary of the Brila trials to baccle in fifeen. Twenty, thefirst recording instance of Brilla liquor as a judicaer appears in theannals of Saxon Fonter Ol water, amith liquor, a small town in England. Brillaliquor was brewed from the fruit of the now exstinct Broa plan, which wasnotoriously strong. In the absence of a trained judge. The Talents Folkedetermined innocence, could be determined by having the accuseddrinking quantity of Brillal liquor, plobel known as law. The theory wasthat anyone who was able who anyone unable to consume a fourth of a gallonof the potent potable was Weakos fearet and therefore likely guilty. If the defendant could down theallotted amount without blacking out, it proved they could withstand the testand temtations of life and were declared innocent that this practice,of course, led to the term tried into court of law. Unfortunately, the beverage was sofrely that many defendants ineborated would awaken from their stupor to findthemselves naked. In a tree, the local children had a habit of using sticks tothwack their exposed hindquarters of the happle's defendante. This traditionbecame synonymous with unfair accusations, hence to term abumrap,made more appropriate by the fact that the children would often not relentuntil the owner of the Pusterio recited some beat poetry. The BRILO trialsended in fifteen forty four, when several towns spoke noticed that someindividuals would purposely undergo the trial when they couldn't pay their tabsin the pum. The phrases tried in the court of law and a bom rap are stillbecoming parms today. All of that is, of course, completely true. I want toplay the liar. I need to Haveth, and my first question, for you,Nathaniel, is, is what was yourfirst experience of Star Wars. I mean we haveall this content to talk about. What was your first experience? I honestlydon't remember the first time I saw a new hope. I know we had the the trilogyset, the...

...okay, so I remember it the the Vhsas wehad had like intros interviews with George Lucas, like talking bout, inddeciden to you. If you remember what year that was, it was the NS. I thinkit was H. Ninety seven pretty sure ad the same, my like Wbut, it was beforethe Specialis Lik, exactly didn't, have any of the CG guys Yep Yep, but we used to watch. I we watch a newhope and MPA strikes back an RASTA. We watched them all the time when I was aKidand, I do remember when they rereleased last Jedi. We went and sawthat in theaters. So so I do remember going to see return of the JEF return.Tof, the Je, I'm you said last Gedi Yeah, I GNNA get there yeah return tothe jete. I went and saw in theaters the specialedition. When then, when that got released up, but that was after I hadalways. I had already watched a lot of star wars and been invested in it. What about you yeah? So I mean I' Thesame thing. I grew up with that box set where you had George Lucas beinginterviewed by like some. I don't know some random dude. It just looks SOSlike early s Las, like style of everything, but they all kind of blended together.I don't think, like I don't remember, like Exho exorbing them likeindividually. It was just kind of like all of the movies s Har, but I definitely remember having thebiggest connection t to Gieti last Jetdi for me, r. Last man, you you didthis to me. I did do so. You V my brout return to the Jedi. My Gosh return tothe JETI definitely had the biggest connection with me. It's I really. I hate why any othername, you know th, like th, you watched I alot of hate right, but I was a kid, and so that was a big that was a big partof it. I loved the indoor battle, the space barel it suffed to me in big time,and I just I just I love the uniqueness that star warth prodbecause. I meanthere's, there's plenty of CITL. When you talk about Scifi movies, rightspaceships in space, Likeye yeah, there you go like that's. It really feelslike that. That and star trek both brought Scifi to the popular Zite guysand in totally different ways, because, right when you look at Star Trek, it'svery much about that's very much about this. This broadvision of what the galaxy could look like in, however many years and andstar wards was really much more focused on a good versus evil battle which, inmy mind, is much more easily accessible startrack. You know you kind of have to get into it. You know most of the peoplewho I know who, like Star Trek, grew up a star treck but ther're people who whoget into star wars because o like oh my Gosh, light sabers, that's so cool wellin the right look at this bag Guy Tark Faryo am that's the thing like you hitit on the head. When you talk about star track T I mean I wouldn't say theproblem. I mean I'm not I'm not like a anti trecky or anything like that. Ijust don't prefer them as much as I prefer star wars, but it's true, but the biggest thing isthat it does it through the lins of humans. You know if they put humans in the I can be I'm nota trecky. I just I just you know, don't hate the movies see I am but, and Ilove both okay, I don't think there. I don't think there needs to be a warbetween the two and this is getting off post. We're going to stop this righthere. I don't think it needs to be wore between the two because they're, bothattempting very very different things. They O happen to be using t the kind ofand they and they hit ma. You Know Yeah Very Public Aa, very SCIFI, settingsame time, yeah yeah, but but Agai back to my point about Star Wars, just beingunique in the fact that it added genize to the mix, which is it's funny,because in the old in the originals, inthe originals, there's there's not awhole. I mean you get you like Lukers, like the main dude like he is Li e. Abadass like straight up Luke is awesome in the sacred ti tack, Inthe Mate inthe main, in the main three movies, because he's Agitta right like that'swhat you connect with and that's what that's. What distinguishes it from allthese other sidfie movies is there's this force and thereare people that canlearn to use the force and, like understanding that as a kid made mekind of feel complex, I was like Oh like I get it like. I get somethingthat maybe other people don't quite get that made me feel I don't know excitedit, and I was just a totally team Loke as a kid man yeah I to I totally agreethat it's really interesting. I don't know Wif we're going to get into this again, but you really feel like you, you seeloop grow as a character as a Jedi like you know, he uncovers things about theforce and revelations are given and and we'll talk about. You know how wellwritten. Are they sure not that well Britten becaes that really matter thatmuch probably not egover all scheme of things man? Don't?I want to try to stay on one topic at a time, but you really see like theuniverse unfolds as the kit kind of the characters go through as as Luke,especially the Jeti, because it's very interesting because you have therebellion and the Empiro are just established from the Getgo, your throwright into that. But it's pretty easy to pick up on right. Bun, thirs wholething about this Jei, the Mysteriau, the mystery of the force and all thatis kind of unfolded as you go through...

...the series as Lukeorns more as Lukeords more about it grows to Tecolajedi, because you know he's not actually aJedi until arguedly. He builds his lightsaber right and in return of theJedi, and so that's a key thing that I thinkgits lost in the modern times when yous think Oh, a Geti, som me that knows howto use the force exactly I mean- and you just think ohsomone says a jetta because they can use a light. Saver soeone SOEs a Gen sbecause because they can use the force, but in reality you have vader tellingLuke in empire strikes back you're, not a jetta. Yet while he's fighting himwith a lightsaver and using the for Kiing, the yeah a it's like it's such apowerful line because you're like Oh, it really brings you into the idea thatlike Ajeda, isn't it doesn't mean you can recognize the force doesn't meanyou can use a lightsaper. AGETTA is like a rank. It's like a military break.I mean it's like you've, not trained to become AGEDA, yea yeah, it's yeah, it'slike being a soldier like the jet. I have right like okay, so you know I canshoot a gun, but I'm not you're a make. You asniy seal. You can be foursesitive and not being right, Ajeti right, lea we're going to get to that.But Lea was not Ajetta, even though she clearly had force power, Shersensitivity which they acknowledge, but she was never like. Oh by the way, I'ma geni to right and E. IT's like it during. You know episode three andproceeding it's not like they eliminated every force user ever meanlike somebody can just be born and be able to recognize, and I get Hadon hitit on the term Meticorian, but be able to recognize that and be able to mitmanipulate it, but not B agidei their goals to kill Vijedis the ones that usethat power to fight for good. ' Sorry did you say: Mity Clorians, you watch it there but wa. Needless to say, I was I was a big star.Wars Fan, I'm assuming I'm assuming you all absolutely and when I saw theprequels, I love them again well. Well get into that a littlemore sure a- and I think I think just the last thing before ask kind of mynext question here- is something that I really connected toas a Gitla Star Wars is, is the world building aspect? That Lucas did need areally really good job wifh his and I think, a lot of movies, not even justthe Star Wars. You Know Saga Fail at is world building, because Imean you could watch those original three movies and you feel like you're,so submerge in this huge universe and yet in reality, you're only stopping attwo or three planets, Mea, one of which is exploded right. It's really not likeyou're, not traveling, all that much, and yet he does such a good jobbuilding this world and that every every place that you do go to. You feelfamiliar with it and you feel like you've been given all the informationyou need to be able to be able to exhorb it like the characters, Er Yeahand when you look at the the neutrilgy in the plane thats they went to like.Oh here's, a knock off Tattoo me, you know wh, I don't want to get into that.Rang well, know hey that. That leads us perfectly in O r Nice question butpause you right there, because I did actually want to open with with thisbefore we got into the main topic. So maybe I'll was the magic meital right.First, all right all right. So so, let's continue with with the most the most currentthing in star wars being the sequels people are, are pretty extreme eitherway on these. They either think this was beautiful and it was adeconstruction of star wars and they were just awesome made movie. I don'tknow arthere people to think there, people that think tat we. I definitelydon't think that o well. How do you have? We have a friend who will come onto defend the sequels? I think the sequels and again after each movie came out my opinionchanged and now I think, having all three of them out and being able tolook back on the whole sequence. It puts it into much clearer relief that they had no idea what they're renowingand I think no, you want to pin the main reason why I think the Secueltrilogy failed. It's because they did not have a plan going into it now takea step back. Lucas did not think he was going to get two more movies. HMM, however, once he was going to get tomore movies, he planned those out to continue story threads that hed lefthanging in a new hop. So in that sense that was cohese. F Anythif, you look atthe precoals, even though those had you know their own problems which will getto he had. A very clear idea of this is the story I want to tell now. Maybe heshould have used more movies to tell that story, but he had a very clearvision of this is the storey I want to tell, and that I think, is the benefitof having one director who clearly loves the material and is trying totell interesting stories with the material, whereas I think the biggestproblem is and I'm not not intending to knock either of these dirtorial chops.Although I can't think of a JJ ABRAM SOE that I really really loved his star.Trucks were okay, but we'll save that for the star trick,episode,...

Welryan Johnson's knives out wasabsolutely brilliant, so he is a phenomenal director and yet I wouldargue, last Jad is probably the weakest tar was now that's ever been made well.Well tell me: You said that your perspectives changed for every movie.What tell me about your experience to each of the movies? Okay, the forceawakens came out, and you know I'm even just looking at the trailers lookingwhat's happening, I'm like you, know, they're, probably GOINGTO, play it safe,theydo. Honestly, I really don't think they had to. Let's be honest, it wasstar wars. We all wanted more star wars, even after everyone, you know poed onthe on the sequel, trilogies, I think o cul, you could have prequiltrilogieseven after everyone had kind of Popoo those and said. Oh, thisgarbage SAR was is dead. You can out with a new stars film and the thetersare going to be full completely star. Wars is just so firmly set in thepopular Zigess in popular media that anything star wars is going to makewaves, regardless of how good our bat it is. So I think you could have. Ithink foreol Wakins could have taken some more risks. What I, what I reallydon't understand is why Disney didn't adapt the novels and here's why thenovels were a excellent B guaranteed to satisfy fan boys and d people whoweren't starws fans. It doesn't matter that they don't know anything about thenovels. They can still come into that, but the force way conten. You know Ihave my joke. You know you have the three movies, O new new hope the empirestrikes back again and return on the return of the Jedi. Well boy. Howpressent was I when I said that joke after last Jed Ihad come out, butFORCEA Wakens came out. I went and watch it. I enjoyed it. I liked forceawakens you know it wasn't a fantastic movie on its own. It was definitelysuper derivitive of a new hope. I mean it was literally like Superdeath, StarTue sure, but I love the characters theyintroduced. I thought there was you got okay, here's here' some things. We havelooked into. Here's this mysterious girl who we can e, can talk about herbeing marry soon. We're get into that. I don't think her Mary Sudis was wastoo damaging to the force awakens you know in retrospect. If I go backand like Hart analyze it, I can see a lot more problems, but just in justwatching thise a DIFFERENC epeen just watching a movie and then going backand Rih, I'm just I'm just wanting here. Your first experience, but my firstexperience Forto vacancs, I was optimistic. I was like cool. This istheyve pensom and I thought I thought killing hon was a great move. Sure Noslike hey wake. I was totally on board with them. Killing off the main cast, Obeatiful was M, which I think I think is a great way to do it be like hey theold people here. Another gun and O ther new generation can next jarage. You cancontute so whichwe're going to talk about that.Beturn O riseaf skywalker cheese, these movies,but I came o really optimistic. You know Ithought I was like that's a fine movie. I could rewatch that movie and I wouldabsolutely I want to see what these characters don't want to get into fin.I want to get into. You know how you're a storm trooper and he'd never killedpeople. I think it would have been more interesting if he had been killingpeople and then had had a change of heart, but I doly don't know that. Dowe. He I mean he too sure he says, that's his first appointment and hecouldn't pull tha trigger. I think I pretty Sur Kuys that okay Boutrigh buthe's like. Oh look. These storm troops aren't just mindless, faceless goons,which they had been they'v, basically been a just cannon, fodter purely evil,which I thought I said: Oh you're, going to humanize the storm troipirsthat make sait a lot more interesting. You know almost like a war story thingwhere it's like. Oh, no, you know this isn't just playing good versus evil.There are people on both sides who have the same similar motivations. Then less Chani came out. When Iwatched last Jed, I enjoyed it yeah and then, after you know, there were acouple things I was like. Well, that's dumb like right in the beginning of theI asi was watching it, but for the most part I was okay with it. Then the moreI thought fbout every time I would talk to someone about the last Jed. I I'd belike wait a minute, but no that was wait a minute and every time I talkedby the time I talked to like six people like a week later, a ome people likehey. You find us on the last gate. I'm like I hate that movie. Just because the more I thought aboutit. The more flaws I found within the more I disagreed with what Ryan Johnsonwas trying to do, which we can talk about more detail and then rise askywalker. It was kind of resign, a resigned SI like was ACTUA. Iwas like I'm watching the trailer and then I hear no one's ever truly deadout of hereand. Then I hear and I'm just like Creamy Sheae and like obut as soon as I heard that I was likeokay, I'm not going no like this with me yeah, because I was like I m meed to go, watch it andI'm Ot Goin, no, like I then whent to watch it. The first time I was like Iwould give that movie two ratings, a four and a seven. I think a seven interms of he went he he tied up all the pot theds. He need to tie up HM. Theymay not have been the most satisfying things, but I'm not left with questionsabout things. I care about like the...

...whole fit people got it come mad of thefinlike. I have not't even tell you what was agin to who cares. Th T dididn't care. Didn't yeah, I mean baks the question why Yeah Yeah? It was astupid thing, but it didn't bother me. I was like okay, you tied you tied thebow on the whole Sago. We can move on that was kind of my seven. You finishedit to a good job and then, if I take the movie as an individual entity, Ithink if they had had some hoot spuk and actually killed off Chibaka andactually had three P looshis mind and actually had TT DI on that planet losesMu. I would have given in a seven or aneight easy sure, because I think when some somebodys on yeah put eEmotionallin have the characters be. Actually you know it's like you've,alread by law, you've already assassinated Chewe is a care and thatEvenntha even gives ray a little bit. That even would make the Palpatinerathing a little more like you made me, kill, Chubaka and then he's got toactually fight with a rage rather than just being like not to like severs bew,a Kay like again we'll get into the marry Su that right: e ijus versa,oppression, race struggle, yeah, but yeah. So my first impression, priofSkywalker was like a resounding mat. Arisouni, I'm glad it's over. I think Iliked some things in Rie scky case that there'se some cool moments. I honestlythought the Palatin superlighting, even Thatg, was done. Looked really good. Ilike that IFFACTAS Prettyo, there's a lot of that in these ones. Lik Yeahthere was sometig, so cool doas like I was likel that looke pretty old thewhole horses on the ship was the dumbest thing ever online, we're notthere yet, but my yeah, my first impression fritoskyworker was like kindof finally it's over and we can Bunda new, better things to like Medlorian,no man. Thank God for that. We all be happy that manwarring is happening. No,I mean they're, definitely different right.You know it's like people that grew up eatin with the prequels. There issomething drastically different about these new movies, and it's not the factthat it's different that makes them bad. It's the fact that they're bad thatmakes them that so I mean- and I think part of that is- is that it's under thethe corporate boot of Disney, I do think, has a big role to play in it.Noh Yeah, I mean well, it's handing off a piece of creative art that somebodycreated man. If I created something- and I designed how it worked in thebackstory and created the world and then handed it off to you- I mean, ofcourse, you're not going to write it as compelling and as truthful as I wouldwrite it and and it's silly just because you find out later that Lucas,you know, had offered them scripts. He said I've written scripts for the nextthree movies and- and they told him theyre like well, buy these scriptsfrom you and he made thee make sure that they were going to buy them fromhim before he signed over the rights and once he did, theber did but yeah anthem to lihe the wasn't happy about it and he wasn't happy about it. This wasin the memoirs of of the whatever Disney guy's name is ddisney yeah everthin, Goer. Well Disney. It's not wis, not ACTUA. The the CEO, though YeahIger Yeah. I think it's Onger US stepp down e h it well, it came outa few months ago was a big deal and it was just reading about it and that tome just seems, like the biggest like why you got George locas like spoonfeeding you gold, I mean, like goodness, like, like we've already seen, that thebest George George Lokis is best is let him write the story. Let somebody elsedirect it yeah you empire strikes back a Lik. I TIS! That's what it is. Youknow it's the creative mind like brilliance of George Lucas with a gooddirector because I get on. Maybe I agree with people that are like YeahLuk. This isn't the greatest director and it's like well, maybe he's not, buthe's unbelievably creative, and he knows how to write a compelling story.Dialogue, yeah, it's never really been. It's never really been his thing. Youknow I mean, but even in the original three- and this is why we on Wy don'tget into our argument of I'm a precool defender. Nethaniuel is yea. Okay, Snot, easy a.We say I will say the Secel Chalgy has made me completely: Rethink the prepaltrilogies, so how many people I was totally on board with the hating on thepeakls, but not okay. I was never like. Oh the preakles are trash and knowingshe ever Watchhem, I love watching the PREQLS, her stupid and bad and fun. Butto your point you can see what Lucas was trying to do and I think that if you were to take them as separatemovies- and you judge them on just like objectively as a movie, I think they'be close. Ish like as individual movies, sure sure in terms of movie. Well, theoriginal star wars were never never got any AFCLAIM IT Wa. It was just owhetheryou'R, like the creative. You know, surtry your by stuff was Wut ee, butthen, if you look at what they were, attempting to do, Lucas was trying tofulfil his creative vision, even if he made some serious missteps and that'sLatafbole, and you can forgive the mistes because you, like, I see whatyou were trying to do here. You were trying to to take this world that youbuilt and flesh out the stories and look at the the question that everyonehad was: how did darth vader go from being a Jedi to being t e, the mostevil Badass on the unit in the universe,...

...but no, it's other, think r cool story.I mean it's not like. It's not like what you see a lot now ath Disney wordslike we need to find some way, and obviously people are interested inmaking money, regardless of what they make. But you know now with all thebackstory movies coming out. It's like okay. We don't necessarily need aHansolo background movie like that's, not necess, it's not really necessary,but this is such a huge, a the prepls ar huge. It's not even it's not justanikin that you're going through you get a really interesting look at howimper Palpantein came in the hour hes I over six woule his Amaza, I would sayhis story, even though it's like mostly background yeah, its probably the one.That's the best hold yeah is how he's like conniving and manipulating andbecoming maneuvering himself. Can Not just be the shadow organization becausehe's like I don't want to control the universe from a basement. I tri to beKing Yeah and he has a plan that takes a long time and it's like and that'sthe one thing that you see in the sequels that you just get so bummed outabout, because you have the subjective you like a movie, you don't right, andso you could like it the direction that a movie goes or you could not like it.If I told you right now, hey we're going to eliminate the Jedi andwe're going to make it so that everybody just uses blasters instead oflightsabers. I would have to say you may not like it right. You may sayLokay. This is this is kind of a bummer like this isn't my, but if you do agood job at telling that story, if you do a good job to explaining why theygot to that point. Well, then there's nothing to complain about. You can likeit or dislike it, but the movie is told the story is told. Well the problemwith the new movies. is they have an idea and they say? Oh you know what theoriginal movies, the good guys were, kind of weak and the bad guys werereally strong. We want that and they just say well just make it happen andthey don't earn that. You know they don't do any of the writing. Aa N. Thisis the big thing when I watche seven for the first time, I was in the sameboat with everybody that it seems everybody I talked to is like yeah. Youknow, seven came out and I was just kind of like okay, like we'll see wherethis goes, but obviously the more I watch it the more I dislike it, buteven at the time, the one one big thing stuck out. I was like: How do we gethere like didn't episode, Yeah, like Didn' episode, Six end and, and you had the empire being destroyed right, anthe emperor diing I mean, and you had l t yeah well. Dihe died in the sense that Supermandied, he's just an Hilida. He was in a hulingcoma e was thrown with engine which blew up moments before the entire spacestation, which is the size of a small planet, blew up and he's like now.We're good, like IA'LL SOW my hands back together like so so you have the end of return of the Jedi and then episodeseven starts and you got to think. Okay, even if you want to get back to thepoint where the or the bad guys control the galaxy and the good guys are kindof like rebels. Again, you got to show us a little something or earn thatstatus and say hey. We want to push the story in this direction. You can't justbe like opening scoll we're really really small and the bad guys arereally big just because we want it to be that way, and that's where it's like,like in an objective like observation of the movie like you're, doing a poorjob like you're, just not you're, refusing to write- and that's this poor,this poor storytelling, because you into this- U Ainto the movie and you'relike you're, literally just recreating episode for with no boundaries like youdidn't do anything to earn it or to get here. You didn't explain why the largepicture of the galaxy like wha? How did they build a super death like? How doyou do that, like like you? Have you have te death star, an episode for, andit's blowing people's minds like they're in denialthough like that asthis planet? It's not a ship. You can't do that and you get a littleexplanation later on in the movies. You get a lot of explanation in theprequels of how early they started like passing these plans around, and this isthe ultimate goal and when it gets destroyed, it kind of ends. All sixmovies, like okay, like that was it, took them that long to get there andnow that it's dead, it's kind o you know, and then it's like star killerbase. It's the biggest thing. You've ever seen. It sucks up a star whichtotally just screws with g like like it doesn't. Work like, like, wouldn'tgravity, be screwed up. If a Ibit, like your son, disappeared when your planetexplode or get thrown into like like how does 't even work, the sun getspulled into the planet and then and then it gets shot into four planets andthe ideas that it kills. Four, instead of one and that's the big thing andthey kill it in a second, it's not like. We got plans that let show us how we itwas just like hey if you, if we fly an xping in there, it worked in episode,yeah the really like that's a death star. We just find in the middle andblow it up, thit's, literally what he sai and it's like man, the first timeyou watch it you're kind of just like okay, Star Wars like it's like morphine.You know you get you're just you're, just obsessed with it and and then youwatch a little more and you're like Oh man like this, is just it's hat, Haf,embarrassing how...

...how Sel, like it's comical, you're likeJesus Ja, like do SOMG, like you literally created a death star. Thefirst scene is a droid on a desert planet carrying plans to somethingrunning away. You have like the opening scene, where you have the big bad guy,with a light. Saber come out and choke some guy it'sjust, like like the wholemovie, is just O ave. Yo have a tunnel run at the end, the cavern Runn,whatever with with the xmings, and they kill the D it just you're, just likedude. What like like, why like be, have a shred of creativity and everythingthat they didn't directly put in there. They reference like Ogan the trashAnbackor, IDI elike goand, yet they assassinated all thoir characters, andI don't mean this Sasay, like Hondied likon dying, I'm with you, like thosecharacters needed to kind of be on their way out, like these new moviesdidn't need to be about them. However, you're going to keep the characters inthere, please have them be more than just like names, because that's allthey are like literally chubacas character. Think if anything Chibakadid this enti in the entire like he goes and he neets Luke for the firstthing he's never seen Luke, he hasn't seen Lucan. However many years he showsup and ray s explaining to luke what he is saying. She's like he says that he'sbluable and it's like you're, really explaining to Luke skywalker one ofChewy's oldest friends. What Joi saying who you've known for what like a halfof a day, hi can speak Wooki because he like grew up with Chubaka he's beenwith Cabaka for years, and that's why he understoonds the TRUBACA says yeah. Why does Ray know what sorry sorry hangon? I got this Roit's so true, and it's so bad because,like why keep him around n, he keep murdering him the next scene. You knowhe's sympathizing with a pork and you're like. Why does he have morecharacter development with a poor, Tan, Luke Scott like just and Youre? Just and again this is this:just a subjective direction, they're going with that I'm disagreeing with,but if you're going to want to say okay, we want to just totally poop all over.You Know Chubacka, which I don't know why you'd want to do that it. Maybe youjust want to give do a little FINGERSO, all the the fan boys out there, but ifthat's what you want to do like, then do it? Well. I guess you know like likedon't just make him like like do that with a I don't know, Ju t do with adifferent character. Right, like you like it's just, let's just absurd likenobody's Goinna like that HEU couldn't have thought t athat would have goneover. Well, no m! It's it's funny, because when I watch theforce awakens, it did not occur to me that the rebellion had supposedly of Hanewm new Republican supposey been wiped out. I thought the first order was somelike small segment that just was holding on to power just because theyhad great weapons M and it wasn't until rise of Skywalker,because last Jed, I, whatever I mean less Jed, I was just a hot mass. OhGaren fire, but I mean even last Jed I was like: Why are they evacuaing theplanets? Aren't they the ones in control? I did not understand that theempire had supposedly suddenly magically reappeared, because theydon't really explain it. It's like a throw a on like well. There goes thenew republic like Dackin Joe they're, like whane Ou. Did you kill the reposeIke Iwas like Oh Damn? They just drilled a large blow to the newrepublic by blowing up by or their plan. It's like nope they're gone completeeGuy Lik wait it. We only had one copy of the newrepublic like a charter, and they got it. That's like that's like sayingAmerica, it is like you know the White House, like you blow up the White House,you like America is just it's like whatit's, like it'. You know like like.Aren't there other planets that are like yeah, not cool, we're going to goahead and evicirate you I mean they're as the whole idea of the Rebellin istat there. This disperse thee, this disperse yeah, you know thing and allthe other planets are under the impression troll, so youwould think Oh,the empireis gone and the Fere we in Republic Republic was hundred andhundreds and hundreds of star systems yeah. No! Well that's what that's whatI'm saying where they don't explain it like I mean you said You Washe you WashForce Awakens and you thought that you know the first orders like thisguerrilla factions kind of small. I didn't get that impression all when Iwatched it. I just thought all right: ther, Fieri, Makin assumption yeah well,but a apparently I was making the complete wrong sine, which I didn'tactually venet hit's the correct I the correct selection, because my my brand,I was like there's no way the empire is huge again right. That's the wholepoint. Is They got defeated? And so now, there's like the small Yeuno people whoare still like empire fanatics who are just trying to take down the new polyislike the role reversal, which would have been a much owiscas. Why changethe name like? Why? Are they the first to order like like? What is that even Iassumed it was because they're like the first order after the empires fallingthey're, going to take it back? That's what I thought it was like, but I weaI'm just Ocreati on everyone who writes a Disney by everybody lie like like how o how do they build star killer base,yeah that make no sense N in how many years do you think it GE e? I wasssuing that all the stuff they had was stuff that the empire had had in motion.SOTHAT's a Decekay Si, I'm gonna, I'm going Ta go to the books, okay, othebooks, Tetendin can was actually good,...

...so and and throng series right,Itomitis on which everyone had had had had the sun questure in it, yeah hat'sRg, I think I think was still throwng. Is it onl, but but that whole one right?It's like this was a remen that the empire had developed before the war.The Republic is now like trying to get rid of the last remnants of the empire,and you know the sun. crusher is doing the Sun crusher things it's dope. Also.I think I just gave away the answer on my triba questions. That's okay! Theyfind out that there's like this secret empire installation in this giantcluster of black holes that doesn't know the war ended because they're soisolate n they're building the third death star with no like no flaws, andso it's like all the rest of the empire. Most of the rest of the EMPIR has givenup and they're still like pocket sells that are causing trouble for therepublic, but by and large the empire is scattered and fragmented, like thelike. The rebellion was in the original, trilogy right and so the whole. The bigreveal is that here's, the secret empire base that nobody knew about thathas just been working on a third desstar for a really long time andthey're just about to finish it. It just makes no sense that you have gold,I mean, but that is that is such a creative idea and so wellthought out, like those books are so well it', The sun question, but I loveAbo suncerser such a cool flip on the whole you know giant star, killing baseJesus. I can't believe I said that the whole giant, you know, exploded. Planetthing was like here's. A single person ship that makes a sun go Super Novathat takes out a whole solar system, yeah like at that's how you raise thesakes and make it more interestin. It at least explains how it's doing thatrights like goes int the Hearto, the sun and it makes the sun it has thislittle thing. It doesn't really affect anything else, but it just makes a songo Super Nova and, let's just design to withstand being the heart of the sumisther Wan as like sover goal and you're. Like I can kind of grasp the conceptthat you could shoot something into a son and cause it a reaction to make itgos throug we're Nover andn in the sun itself as what takes everything out, asopposed to like we're going to suck up a son into a planet, and it's likethatlike. Also, you know how fast planets are moving through space. Theyhad like wanted curve that you didn't see that someone like a giant glack hasgrabbed the star, kill basind like di the blanted flick s to make all theshots curve to the planets. You didn't see that part they hedited that out. It's just so, and it was Galackusbecause Disney ons marvel and star was boom cannon. It's IT's really sad! Justbecause, like there's two aspects to like so my background is an videoproduction. Like I own, a video production company, small with afterone film, we don't comeout, we don't make movies anything like that, but wedo do a lot of writing. How you make short films. Is it make Atinli? We do alot of writing for people and we essentially we do character. WritingRight, we develop a character throughout. You know short little videoand tell their story, and so the writing side of things is usually whatI'm looking at Mal right like how the story s been, and it's not just a biasthing like this- is the more important side of things right. So you have thetechnical side which is like well how the lights look and how the sound comesthrough and how and how the colors looking in the video and these visualsand stuff, and so you can be focused on one of the other right. So you can sayI'm going to really really focus on the visuals and and how the story looks andhow it's told, or it can be, focusing on what the story is like, like theactual story and how it's written and all of these new movies fall into thatfirst category hardcore, which is so sad because what they do is they gettdivision in their head. But they say this would look really cool and prettyso we're just going to make it happen, and they don't do the leg work to rigtto get there bet they're like it would look really cool if we light sped aship into another shit and then they all blew up, and we had this slowmotion seem whet. They all cracked and the galacy was still for a second andthey don't care about how how horribly that was told and how the writing wasawful. They just say we need to get to a point where we can show d. You wantto know the question I had immediately after that happened. Why did she sew meon so ship for that to happen? She shits have autopilot. Can she not justlike throw it into hybrodrive and it shat for like put like a a little likespring on it wet awehime? We just saw Bba operate a chicken Walker and justLik wit, the AIENJOYT and makes it literally makes. I mean it. There is anendless amount of question we gee to entire episode. Just on. Let's call Ibeholdo maneuver because that's WHA, they named it in the ninth movie. Wecould do we cul o. An entire episode is hats anine. It is so stupid and againlook really cool nt thats oy purpose they serve. You know what it was. It'sa transformers movie. It looks really cool when you're watching it, but then,when you take a step back, you're like this is just a pile of noise and lifeand that this is this is exactly tha. That's not that, okay, th! Let me stopback and say it's not that bad. But it's the same. I don't know. Maybe it'sreally not I' make SS formson. If you watch dog, it's not all of them. I'veseen all the SRONS on those movies. U You're really telling me that the lastJedi is better than some transformers movies. The last Jedi is there's noConfederat E. First Transon, it's not even watching a story, it doesn't makeany sense, and I guess okay. So if you you know what, because f you judge itby any attentions its intentions.

...transformance is just trying toentertain you with flashy lights and stuff, a no, what it's doing. It's amonster movie and this is theter Tet. I is superting my expectations by makingby turning he's the referst Mider touchpect everything he touched, her t, but I mean like when you watch thosemovies. You can just totally see that you can just totally see how ther theirmonster movie writing, which is the term that I use where it's like w. Whenyou read a monster movie, it doesn't really matter what's happening in themovie right. You just want God's Illa to fist fight another giant tracken,and you want to get there. However, you can get that so so, but that's allthat's really the purpose of the movie. You want to go and see that, likethat's, the excite like you're, not really interested in, like thestoryline storylanes, going to be kind of cheesy and kind of Faky, but you'renot interested in that you're interested in seeing machines, fight,giant, lizard and so in the Star Wars movie. That's exactly how they werewriting. They were saying we don't really like it's kind of Corny, thatthere are space wizards and we'll call them laser swords, and things like that,so we're going to only be interested in the glamor and how it looks, becausethat's the only reason people watch star wars and they're wrong star awaysis an amazing story. endearing is that it takes itself seriously lik, eventhough it's dealing with space, wizards and Sur FORC, but when you but starwars is not meant to be a reverent goofy yeah, which is, I guess, is theDisney marble touch is like thing has to be even even Marvel dos a way betterjob. No, I agree marvel DIS. A T see comic books, making COMEC books like areveren. Goofy works a lot of times for comic books M, for something that'sbeen established as like. These people are serious like thin is notthing. Thatmeans it doesn't mean they're, not totally lighthearted. They won't jokearound every now and then, but for the most part, they're not recognize likethemsel Geti is a serious profession. It's not like a joky thing like sabers.Are Series civilized weapon right? Not Not not a not EEIs ran in the firm,whatever is a Ilifetime, but no it's it's true and you hit it right on thehead like it recognizes that it's it thinks it's a dorky movie. It thinksit's a really nerty movie and it doesn't think it's cool and that's theproblem, because I watched the last jed I dressed as a Jedi fol Jeti Robe, and Isat in that theater and I'm telling you I felt like an idiot, I mean I feltlike an idiot because I'm like Luke Skywalker, doesn't he want to bewearing this right now he's making fun of it he's tossing things over hashouder, everyhy's laughing at him, we're seeing porgs and little nuns. Ithink e, like Li Frog, nuns and alien sea cows of four boobs, and it just itjust it was. It was hard. It was hard, Tagr, Jo and the sacred Jedi text, andit was hard feeling cool and like and liking that, because I was like, ohlike you guys think this is a joke. That's really sad yeah, and- and this is why and and we we getAshalon to talk about this- We I feel like we should save a lot of thisconversation for when we get Ashin on that, because she'll defend it as akind of a breakdown, a deconstruction of star wars which I can see but again,where that's going Bu. But the thing is he did it so poorly, it's so poorlydone n that it only serves to make me angry when I'm like. Okay Luke isdisenfranchised and feels like it's hopeless. That makes sensebut himshowing it. It doesn't make sense for him to show it by being completelydismissive of Ray who I he completely dismissediv other stuff he'saccomplished. He blew up two damn death stars. He defeated the emperor likehe's, got some chops, no ofor him to say. Oh, it's all pointless. Also, youknow why did he he's like? Oh, my, my apprentice is having evil thought setme murder. Him I's, like I know, there's good in you, father like okayhold on, but to that's what that's what I'm saying like it's, and I don't. Iwouldn't mind and I'm saying wouldn't mind any objective sense. Obviously, asa subjective fan, I wouldn't have liked the direction of luke becoming a douchbag and like the geti kind of getting thrown out the window and it being inDeconstructin Star Wars. Even it was done. Well, I wouldn't be a fan of it,but I could recognize if it was done well right. This was done terriblybecause the point you make right there is that you've developed a character,Luke skywalker over three movies to be not just the most hopeful movie in StarWar like this hole, oful character and star wars he's one of the most hopefulcharacters, written period in literature, because I malike literaturein film as far like Teres Mir in film, Let's Ust cas what I knew Doth Baderwas my daddy he's one of the most most hopeful characters written in all thefilm and because you have the evilest character written in all film. I M an Imean, like dorth. ATER is one of the best told villains ever and hessinister. He murders people and Col bloody blows up planets. He chokespeople to death like he is just evil and you have Luk looking right into himand saying I'm not gying to feed you, because I know they're still good inyou and and so you've developed this character. Get to that peak. Where he'sjust the man to where he throws his lightsaper side and he's made it you'relike Gosh, you're, the freaking man and that's what does it that's? What turns you know: Darth Bader to the good sideand it's his amazing character arc, and then you say, oh by the way, and heflashback we're Goin, to explain us in a flashback that he lost all of that.How did he lose it? A he thought that his nephew like had a dream, and thenhe just decided to kill him. He decided...

...to kick out his nephew with a playboyand he was like not ma. No Soni mean it just and that's what I mean about it'sjust done poorly because you could. You could be really creative and say: Let's,let's explain this really well through two movies and somehow te it's nt goingto be a hard one to explain it go for it sure. That's a bold thing to do, butif you do it poorly, you did it poorly and we're allowed to look att. You andsay you objectively. That's a really poorly told story. Yeah, Tis, disnFranchise Luke was something that definitely needed back story. It's it'ssomething that could have been really interesting to explore like how didLuke, who got the absolute got absolutely dumpstered by his dad. HMM,like you, know, empire he's lot like the lowest low and empire, and then hecomes back from tro. The JER is like I'm Gointo Redume, my dad, I'm gonna,I'm Goin to say my dad yeah right. He goes from from it's beautiful, yeah,it's it really is, and they did that and a lot of that happened off screenof him just coming to terms with you know, even though my dad crap out of meand threw me down to shoot and caught my hand- and you know I kissed mysister- that was weird right he's like I'm, going to come back from this. Ibecause he believes in that yeah and FORSO for him to go from that to just throwing his light. saper off thecliff needs. Explanation, the explanation of Oh. He was sad becauseHi's apprentice, he thought his apprentice was bad, so he tried to killhim, and so, as he priends killed, everyone doesn't cut it because thatit's such a leak and the Luke we know to the Luke we have now that you haveto do. You have to flesh that story out. You can't have characters, change, thet,go from personality, a to a hundred cme hundred a eighty person. Ao Explain:Ahout, actually explain you caln' actually Ta in Realy have have peopledo that, and even even be a little mysterious about it and be like whathappened to this person that made the Neli the intention of explaining it letbut the intention of actually diving into it, and even if it's like for this, it had to be explained, but that explanation was not sufficient,yeah et'. Why did this make him give up on everything? Wouldn't that empowerhim? Woel he's gone through so many times where he's failed. Why did thisone was the strataber of the cammels back and, if you explain like Oh isbecause he felt like he failed then, and you know you see Han and Layacheing, like you tried to kill my son, you Bastan like rejecting him like that,might drive him over the edge like. Why no include that in the first Bil likewhy no't just have some of this to just build a little bit because mean it wentfrom like zero. It went literally from like jjis going Ti. Just deny the factthat you live like we know nothing about. Luky. Doesn't speak a word andthen all of a sudden in, like three minutes of screentime, were like thisguy's an asshole. Now, like he's just great Lik, your ruine him I mean- andit's just it's sad obviously from a subjective like I hate that Eurecarpose people hate that direction. The problem is Ryan, read the script andwhere it said Lu, he read grandma Tarkin and he's like. Oh those guys, ajust a duce bat got it. Let's talk about adrock bar for, likethree seconds Yoh Alothisa Mik bar murdered off screen like get the hellout of heretat. Why was 't CATRIL AOSRIN? He knew it was a trap. Why ID't?Why wasn't he hold those character if he was Holdos, tater, rigt well andMakhim less of a dushbag yeah? I didt make him not an idiot again. They hadall these holdover characters. If you're going NA kill people off make itpeople that were that were easier. Nobody cared about. Odeif that hadhappened. We wild be defending the ATPOR, maneuver sure sure, like likeikee Tha Yo it with a travey, did it anyways? Could you a like, like theyeven do some kind of like creative, like spin off of him saying it's a trapor something like like I don't know like turns the Shit around they turnand he like opens Al Hanling feguancy to the empire. He like, we have you nowand he just goes trap and then does the back, Hey, look and you likeackn Ooen,just light speeds right like the thing is- and this is what this is. Whatfrustrates me? The most about this whole trilogy is that there was so muchpotential that got wasted or reversed or Spanid and again I think the biggestproblem is thit didn't have a plan going forward. The second biggestproblem is Jj and Ryan had two completely different ideas of what theywanted to do, and so they have we're doing we're going in this direction.Ryhan turns the car on we're going in that direction. Jg comes Afrou, nowe're going in this direction, and so you end up in the exact same place. Youstarted so so bst absolute nightmare of that, but I really feel like again. Idisagree with almost everything. Ryan did in the last yea I, but I reallyfeel like a lot of it could have worked if it had been handled better. I don'tknow if I necessarily would have been like. I really liked the direction thathe took look in, but I really feel like all the decisions he made to subvertexpectations could have worked if they were done right if they were done bysomeone who understood star wars, but they weren't. They were done by someonewho doesn't know star wars in the slightest right, and so he was justlike well, this is whyt, I know about star wars and it's just the mostsurface level, Star Wars, knowledge yeah, which is why you get the wholeLazer swords and space wizards thing, and I ause that's the that's. What likepeople, who don't know anything about Star Wars, think about star wars, butin it also it like it's. Just like you can't write well in a universe that youknow nothing about yeah. I do a good okay, that's the writer's fault, yeah L,but I mean, but he's parthe wo thet...

...himself. He didn't he like. He evenlike like in most situations you write with a group of people, you have agroup of righters and he denied a lot of help, forothritic an believe. If Idon't want to be mistaken here, mispeak but like I believe it was just himmaking this script. Oh Yeah he's definitely has the lion share of theblame. E and Disney. HAS THE BLAME FOR HIRING HIM O. I don't I don't. I'm notsure why they didn't just have jj do all fhrer movies. That didn't makesense to me. I think that had happened. I think we would have gotten a bettertrilogy because it would have for sure been better. I don't know if I wouldhave liked it still. Just because I mean I know how and Soan here's ONAPlat you're going to get at some level, there's nothing that would have pleaseus. I don't think I disagree with that because I like some of the stuff theydid, I liked force awakens, even though there were tons of issues. I wouldstill looking FORMAC and say I enjoyed that movie. I even with all the thingsthat that, even with all the problems I have with it because of the things hitcould have set up, I still like it, but here's. The thinglike this is this is what I tell like. I Toll People Tis all the time whereI'm like. I want starwars to be great, like like, like I've, watched theMandal Orian their problems, the Mandal Orian, but I think it's so race, fun,yeah and it it's Star Wars like I love it, and it's Hey, Ryan, here's yourstar ws without night savers and spacebooses, and it's awesome yeah. No,it's a Western tolld in the star was universe and it's great it's becauseit's well told- and the thing is I, when you take these new movies, I'm nottrying to just nitpick and be a fan boy, which is, I feel like what happened tothe prequels, where it was like. There's nothing really objectively likelike. Obviously you could not like some of the character directions. You couldsay that character was kind of, or I honestly think, the biggest problemwith the prequels is that it centers around two people who are planks ofwood, like it has hain, Christienson andAtalie Partman, I wouldn't say centers around okay, especially from the secondmovie on it. Absolutely they do a really bad job and and and they get alot of rasy cool characters me ole ones, characterlot of elex lol, stuffhappening in the PREQUOLS, but it's a little bit damnined by the fact thatit's supposed to be the central threat is like how did Anni can becomeDarfader, and that story doesn't get told very well. There's a there's, abig chunk, there's a lot of skips and jumps and Haydan Christienson just doesnot act. Well, so I think that's the main failings. An people were superexcited for like a Darth vaders coming of age and that's not really what theprequels were, and it was what they were trying to be ind some at somelevel. They were trying to be that, but were they trying to be just that?Another thinos? No, they weren't, but that was what people's expecting, whichW Y think I think people dumped on that, and then it picked everything else todeath right, because that aspect, even though they're definitely parts of itthat worked- and it was definitely it was fine like it wasn't, it wasn'tgarbage, but it definitely wasn't to the level that we were expecting, Ithink, was the big issue was that that development of Darthbader's storywasn't the quality we wanted and it wasn't as engaging as we wanted, and Ithink I think that was the main reason that the prepools in again, when theycan' out everyone love them it and then, when they look back theyere like yeah, I kind of wish that the DarthFader, comy and apparently cone wor fixes that problem, which is not thist,doesn't that doesn't buy you for Getten to get sorry, if you sure no yeah odoesn't fix the problem, but you know props to them. For at least you know, retroractively saying, okaybetween two and three here's all the crap that happened and they like okay,get that's why he turned o the Dodg, very least you have a character. WHOsdistinguish ill bey different over three movies. True, we didn't. Wedidn't get that all over to Movi, like l like no hes different. He and again I oll I've always enjoyedwatching the bigcles and I don't think they're like bad movies. In terms oflike you can't this is a bad movie. I don't want to watch it, and I'vewatched some some of those movies that, like I've, never watchd this moovieagain it's a trash, mash, Jena yeah, I don't think theyre and again we talkdabout their viguals relly, aren't like stars of cinema. Aren't shing aren'tlike exemplers of of iphotography in some ways objective like like they fallshort in the same yeas, the PRINTN, but I think I iis E. I think the originaltrilogy has a lot of advantages. If you look at the ORIGINALN and Prequel sideby side, I think the original does some things a lot better and I really do think. I honestly thinka big part of it is especially when, when you're going backand watching- and I know I harp on this- and I know others disagreement, but Ireally think the practical effects for me make me feel more in the universeMaytra when I don't see the jarring the jarring CG. That kind of tends to snapme out and then I'm looking like what is this Garbat Segi and then I can'tfocus on hats going on so to me that that aspect is actually big factor inwhy I prefer the original, the prequels. But what movie? What movie had the mostpractical, props and and the light simbers? Now the lightser bowls ind,the PREQUELS- are the best hands down. No. But I'm ask I'm asking thisquestion like Wha at what movie? Out of all six out of all nine had the monmost practicals practical set. I would...

...a guessing its number one episode, oneyeah yeah it'sepisode, one yeah, but but and that's a thing is that and itsis not locus his fault is that, and even today, CG still mostly verynoticeable. It's getting it's getting very, very good sure it's getting bad.I think it's always Beenaz. I think it Lucas made the peples now I would nothave thiscomplaint, but when you see the CG next to the practical effects,which all look amazing is very jarring, so there are some scenes in the preplesthat look absolutely fantastic. Yeah, like I think, a lot of the other thanlike Wato but and n. The pod racing scene looks great yeah that eas youlooks fantastic. They gid a good job, a you of all time. They did a really goodjob like a CG works really well for for inanimate objects, and it does not workfor creatures, because it's just you also takeato account that was the firstever digially Ino yeah. No, no! I totally first oer digital movie and IReali Ero this S, I'm making an unfair complaint yeah, it's a totally unfaircomplaint. But if you look at and I'm going to bring it in again not forcomparison, but if you look at both star wars and start treck, theirprosthetics are how absolutely outstanding yeah. I don't think therewas any reason they ever should have had an alien that wasn't prostheticbecause it looks so good. It looks like an alien, but what they're doing at thetime is? Is You look at episode? Four, the first one ever came out groundbreaking model work and just things that people never thought would be onscreen. We obviously look at that now and we don't see the strings that areholding the boys and the preqwils do the same thing for Cghi, an precosorbreaking ground on some of some of the and first ever CGI, this first EverseoI caracter first digital movie, some of the Greatest Gad, that's still in amovie period, and yet some of the effects you still see and you're likewow, that's really bad Susi, and I totally get that and that's just youknow what that's what has to happen for the industry to move forward, becauseif you look at sleeping beauty, Snow White, when were those animated in theS S, they still look gorgeous. Today Toy story looks like ass, but that wasa breakthrough in thred, animation, yeah. So and it's it looks ask to the point ofalmost being unwatchable, even though it's toy stories a great movie, I loveToisto. I Ist love. I butilo more about the storissreally Bat loks Great Ebad,even incredibles doesn't look very good. It wasn't glike watch the VERSOcredibles and you're like what wo yeah you're like thiis a screen saver onexactly it wasn't really until monsters ink that that thre started actuallylooking like Dan. This is actually looks really good yeah, but you had to have toy story to get tomonster's ink. I get that you had that thet that had to happen. I just wish itcould have happened in a movie that wasn't Star Wars so that it was reallygood in stars and that's just a complete fligher fan is fancy. That'sjust for me. That's a very, and I think it is a legitimate complaint because itis a visual medium, but you K, you got to think like think of just the realmof practical effects when episode four breaks into the scene and juestpractical effects in a way that people haven't really used them, and it's justreally creative cool thing. We have stopped motion things and all this junkpractical effects themselves advanced to the point where you couldn't eveennotic Nono. Now, when padebl use pactal effects, they're so freaking good, youcan watch the Lor of the rings and you could look at a giant tower and it justit looks. The model work is so insane yeah it just. It looks like you couldjust reach and touch it where you go back and wait. Yoch episode for andagain I mean they've done like fifty nine digital remasterings, where youget you watch the original ones, Oh yeah, and and I'm not liing e. You seethe Streamyou, see the outline open H, mind. It was also standard deaf, so yeh, but this is my whole point- is that in advanced like like it was thebiggest again andi will give Lucas pr a lot of props for that, but again it does. It does affect mywhen I view it. It does affect how and ev I've always touht this way about CGperiod. It's only now that it's even getting remotely reasonable, where youcan't tell it CG, almost everything, but you know all that's going to ageactually to where you're like Ohat, I thought was really madmaxury road he's one of the mostgorgeous movies. I've ever seen, yeah it's AI'm watching thisit's excellent.Why is this movie so good, looking as like? Oh because they were actuallydudes on those giant, Poles, waggling back and forth? Im like what, but that's that's. My whole pointis like look at practical effects in that movie. Oh yeah, I mean that wasincredible. Aa every moment of there wus eas, like one moment of CGIN, thatmovie yeah, and it stands out like a sore thumb because sure that the thesteering meal like what's this Buckins, the main bad guys Phingix car explodeand the Sterin like bounces storts, the camera and the camera, goes through oneof the holes in the stering well, and it looks so out of place right becauseeverything else is so it's re. Everything else is real, so, but everymovie is going to age is kiind ofi I get again like et you canlook back atthose those the Orisional Star Wars in...

Poio. I would say that is a personalcomplaint about the peoples which is I reospares. It may obviously recognizeas unavoidable. I recognize is not super fair. However, I do consideryou know visual enjoyment, a factory and watching movies, so I think it asome level. I'M T I can't complain about it, but I can explain this is whyI feel this way. Even if it's not even even though I will, you know, Lod allthe things that motis was trying to do and and where it's Gotenus just like. Idon't particularly like listening to the Beatles, but I recognize the impactthey had on the music industry right right, againand, that's perfectly fine,and if there was anything subjected to take out of that, it might be thatvisual effects like like digital effects, don't age aswell as practical effect, Yeah and O it's a smarter thing to absolutely andButherthan that IA es really no way for him to know. Like this is going to looklike just legos in ten years, no Legos are going to look better than this inten years. There's no way for him to know that, and so and again, when Iwatched, I was like wow. This is really cool. Sure I'R AI, well, there's a lotof Haer for the most ar lot of haters, but they were. They were Oh yeah andagain I really think the hey there coming back around and they're likethese were great now th again because again, a lot of the hate was you didn'tgive us what we thought we wanted right, but how now we got Disney like makingan absolute? This is what happens when stars is the hands of an angry toddlerand r like oh again, I think I think the sequels is for me an again. I lovewatching this. I've always loved watching the prequels. I've never beenlike. You can't watch these movies or Eve. I wasn't like Yeatheyr, not great,but they're fun. Yeah do all the face is incredible: Tothe Facofus I'vealways lotted the really good there's there are really really good parts inthe preqls. I honestly think I honestly think th the pod racing scene is reallycool yeah. I don't think it has any place in that movie, but I think it'sreally cool. I think it's it's yeah Poberyso should have been like a shortand it would have been awesome. Well, I mean it's Ong, IFOR, the sake of beingexcited. It's an exciting thing to see, understand lice it had in the movie itSou it sols a small part of his character a little bit. I mean it makes infinitely more sensethat Oo Wn I cunow it', like we shouldn't, compare because of like,like she's, just a dumpster fire of a character, but to say one: You have todevelop him as somebody who is really good with a force but doesn't know thathe's even using it. So we need to see that in some matical way so Hio, I would argue that baby anakin little Anakin was a Mary Su. Olderanakin fails things he sets out to do. Little Andikin and just like I'm superforcepowered and does the like I'll, try, spinting and the magically blowsup the thing which it you know, I'm not complaining about this, but I'm justlike comparing Anakin and Luke and ray as the main protagonist right right, Annakin and Luke went through character.Arcs failed got the crap picked out of them Rase, just like I'm amazing, ateverything and rereally. Nothing ever faces me bight, baby, Anakin and evisod, one whichagain this isn't really big deal, because eventually he does yeah you'rewriting a character over three movies when you're Goinso. So so his doesn'tmatter, but but now I think about it like he just succeeds at everything hedoes. He wins the POD podrays he goes and he get something bout, the ship andhe blows up the feneration controller. Basically by sheer luck and it's like forewor, no, it's true, but but thatWAA again, I'm not complaining about that Ray I'm complaining about becauseshe never changed, but because we see Annakin get dumpster Bytin to getdumpstered by ob one right. We see him think about they think about Luke. Inepisode. For Right, so luke comes into the scene. He is a surfer guy, so outof place man. What is he doing in I baceband? He comes out. He just kind ofgoes and saves that hes literally dropped in the death star the SpaceWizard Guy Whoas a Gen. you know who's, just he guid hleavs and he's just likeyeah go and rescue the Princess Somehow and he does and he comes back and thenhe blows the death star up- and I mean- and my point here is that that'sunderstandable because it's establishing your hero, but it's alsoshowing that he's got a long way to go and he's got this journey right. So, atthe end of episode for he's being told by OBI, wan he's, like he's likeremember like like the force, will be with you always and he's almost beingguided by OBI want to do these. The I'll agree with that th. The thing is: If you look at Luke, his pilotingprowess is established like yeah, like he a and Weg Gentilles they talke aboutit. All we talk about like yeah, we fly, we fly ship, we know how to fly shipsand we're really good at shooting small things. He uses the force to writeheuses the magic space wizard. He usees space, posor magic to make the shops goin right, but it wasn't like he was. He was like this is my first time in in apilotship right, whereas baby Annakin is like okay, he pod race before butlike the Naboo fighter is just like magic and tuition and Ray is like. OhI'm, a junk trader on this planet that...

I've never left my entire life yeah. Iknow how to Pi ot every ships, who are you? Oh, your whole Characteris, you'regood at piling things I'm better than you. I Lo you, your traind sift Lordyou're Lor. I will say that, like sure his character, I like, like the factthat he goes and blows up the federationship, but but a little much.He definitely has a little Mary Sue, but butbut, but I mean his characterdevelops over six movies right, so you Gana his charater relms over threemovies, an and then something happens, and we don't know and we've lost thetapes. He turns into door vader and DARTHpaterm ANI. You do about Louk IAS like velvs over three I'mtm talking talkingabout aunt anikan yeah. Somebody who develops over six films Di be fair. Hedidn't really develop much over Barth Bader yeah you're right s really untilsix, he is a small character, development of denying denying denyingand then and then coming to who ebbut that's more of Lukes arc, anyways yeah,but again when you're writing a character like that you can. You candevote a whole movie like when you take all pette movies and you bring themdown. You say he started off kind of as a hot shut. He got the crap beat out ofhim and then he fulfilled his goal, which at the end so three was to becomeevil. My point wasn't that Oh wow, look, how terrible Lucas did it developingAnakin in the Frist? You E SA, like you know now, I think about it. He justkind of succeeded at like four different things that were kind oflucky. Now it's Charl the characters didn'n their first movie, Tuess tht,that's actually a decent point that you're making as far as I've alwaysviewed the pobracing scene as one obviously very exciting and fun, andthat's why they put it in one reason, but it's important as characterdevelopment, because it shows how Skille of a pilot he is and ow how evendespite not being trained as Agedi hes still using the force of these odd waysor you can really kind of see it practically, but you're right with theaddition of all that stuff at the end, you're kind of like ah like it may be alittle much little Mi something I never really thought about t ar to did it allhes just ar to Locke to controls. Just like I dusin Ti beeping about Linhe Li, likethis stupid kidbecausehhe's doing it ds doing all this. Like I'm driing Sur,you are he's like hey three P, like this guys, a e freaking moron. I justsave the dish. What did you say time out all right? So we've been talkingfor like an hour and a half yeah. I know, and this is question one I meanhow about we take a break and we go to the quizzlers corner. Oh hit me welcometo the Quizzlas Gonea when I have some wrizzles for you. Pizon me. This hit me how many dismemberments all thay in theSkywalka Saga, so the the qualifications are multiple limbs atone scene, is one, is memberan name characters only so like in episodeto whatwe one chops, the leg off n, one of the Ancor things doesn't count: okay,separate instances, so if a character lost limbs at different times thase,what all count so whativ a character like loses bothlegs and an arm. Let's say: THAT'S ONE, okay! So if it's in the one scene, thenit's one if the same character is in different scenes or movies losing limbs,that's those those all count and limbs is just arms. Yor Legs arms likes headPORSO, whatever any any time someone got cut up by a light saver, as youshould be dismembers though, like is that count like episode to I be want toget, stabbed and cut justrememberd meas. You lost a limb right or other body.Part okay, okay, I'm getting STABBE does not count. Okay is by my count, ifyou think of another one, I didn't think of I's Jis, the new ones too. Yes,thiss the whole Skyakersaga. We calling at that still because I can't think of a better wayto put it that doesn't include Rogon and Solo and all the antiliar stuff. It is technically the skywalker saga.Even are there any dismemborance in anyones I doyou Don. Now, don't don't answer me.I got the answers. Yes, okay, okay, but not many Heyou can go movie by movie like Ha to make it easier on you I'll tell youif you want to go through a movie I'll, tell you if you've gotten all of themfor the moving okay, so I know an episode one. We have.We have one dismemberment if I'm correct andthat's tat start mall getting cut in half episode to. We have onedismemberment Andakin losing his arm. I don't know if you want to includebobafat losing his head, which would be two Cango Jango. I'm sorry, forgive meyes, that that would count. Okay, do you. I guess his arm and his his headcounted. T say just remember Ma you O gosing, a part of your body. Your headis a part of your body, so that's so to in that movie, Oh wait. No Zam wezell loses her arm,that's three m! Those are all the ones I have feard. Okay and the episodethree we've got. Obviously the highground scene we've got grievous, losing several limbs. We haveduu losing several limbs.

I think that's it. Don't don't tellmyself telme, don't tell me, I ac out you're missing one in episode.Three also, you should be keeping runningtown- Oh wow, yeah, freaking, so Windo, my Swindo Yeahosan,that's the ones I kind ed, a preposode, three yeah, and so that Itas asciler. Once you get out of theSeatthe Preky Yeah Iand, then now the sequels. We get one an episode for just the bar scene. Do you know hisname? He is a name character. Well, come you come back to that. Imean domotus points. If you get his name, is it written? It is written itis. It is somewhere. I don't know if it's spoken in the movie, but that is anamed character. Hi have the death sentence on five o SI systems I'll becareful, you'll be dead, Yo meed an I never understood like why he was beinga diy. I think he seens Ha robot chicken wher, where his friend isactually like. Dude he's really a Nice Guy Bob on he's like he says he doesn'tlike you and he's like. No, no I'm serious, like I don't like you either Yu did why yousay that then he gets his arm cut off, but we're at nine. Now we're movinginto episode, five, where Luke loses his Handi, guess the. What are they called? Oh Man, the bandbatthe yeah, the band. The losing its arm would be another one, not a namecharacter. So like animals Ufso like when he cut cut up the Theho, the tontop doesn't count. Okay, so we're otherwise it gets niceyeah we're at ten. I don't think anybody else loses a Lamin episode,five, not according to my Cowdo, then we have episode six. We have anotherlimb cut off with vader losing his arm. I'm tryingto think of that whole tattooing sequence. I don't think anybody whooses a hand orarm. So that's eleven than we got the newmovies we got now. Just tell you for seven and nine. I could not find anydismemberments, I don't. I could barely think of any, even in I mean snoke andAite, that's twelve yeah! So that's those are all the ones I could. I couldcome out O twelve disemembermen. So, okay, ememberments, can you rememberthe name or do you know the name of Twelvthe starinolfsit systems, the?What the name of the Guy? In episode for Oh no, I don't Pando Baba, Iwouldn't have dessed all right good. I was wondering the I think the hardestone for that was because most of them are pretty memorable, is Zam yeah and Iprobably would have been like Oh th, the bounder Hunter Lady Yeah. I got that one. This one we've already talked about.What is the name of the one man ship that destroys solar systems, yeah, Sun, crusher and who piloted it?throngit was ant, dark, Jedi, Kipduron h how many kids did Laya and harm have inthe books and bonus points of you can name Em, Iwan't we will to name them one of them. You should be able to Riah Hothad Been Luke. Yo Get closer, an o get further. Mananikan is yeah, they name it KidAnnagan, Oh Gosh, a yer dad your grandfather was terrible. Man He's aterman for three three okay, so the twins, j, Jana and a new ther are twinand Jason and then Anakan. Okay. Here we go. What are all the lettered crafts in themovies? You have an awing and x wing, I'mkneeling a wywing and er, something called a you wing yeah, so xy ban, Aroonces in the movies, and I did have bonus for all the other letters I foundon the Star Wars: Wicki Yo, the only Xho. So apparently,there's also a tvdeh NK, and I was like this is notsonse. Eventually they ot belike this is likt. This was one I was supposed to start with how many languages does see. THREEPOspeak approximately er six Thousano, six million six million donit was a sixsix million fuaters mecation, all right and last question how many of thebounty hunters in the empire strikes back? Can you name in the scene wherehe's got all the bounty hunters around him? How many of them can you name?Well, you are six. I now four for sure. Igahty eight Bos mBOBA FIT...

OH gosh. What's the fat guys Ame, I know his name. Oh Man, should I give you the first letters ofthe next three names? I don't think I'll know. The other twoI know on name starts with a d. One name starts with the number four, and one name starts with the Z. I knowthe D one it's it's. You can tell me this Yran with thePokimon name, Dos Z, in the for Zuccus and Forlom, no either of them, but I know start tothe D Imes, with the ghosttype Okim Mon. Oh Man, Gen, one costi, pokiman, thirdevolution trade, only ghost type Oki Mon, it's Dangar. Yes, I knew S. I knewDangar for sure those that thus here ends the quizzle. So there's so much more to talk about, Imean iswe can in Mov these series that spanned forty fifty almost fifty fortyyears right, seventy seven to to two thousad, an nineteen. So so forty twoyear series that spawned extended universes is completely embedded inDhesi guys. Everyone knows who the force who the force is WHO's. The forsthe's made f course. I know he's mad. Eaeveryone knows what the forceis theyknow. What lightsavers are. They know who darth AER is ev. Literally everyperson on the planet living right now knows who dorth pater is? That's nothyperboly. That's the that's a fact. So I don't think it's I don't thinkit's unfair to say a star was conversation merits a you know severalSOMO, especially when you're coming up with something trying to untangle whatwent wrong. Yeah I'S A lot easier than to say what went right. Yeah, no andagain, we'll spend more time on star warswe'll get to eentually some othertopics. This is just a good place to start, but as for episode, one of thedearly debated, I believe, yeah, I believe, that's a rap greg. Where canpeople find you on social media and Whatnot Yeah? You can find me on on facebook atchapter one films at chapter. One films is that chapter one, the digit one orWaiany, spelled out Oeny, also just Greg Prinns on facebook, and you canfind a link through Thereari. We are on Linkedin. We are also on instagram. Wehave a website chapter, one films, Dat Biz, so come check us out. I am on twitter at Holy Golem, hlyGolem, and that is it Oai'm, so absent from social media. Soyou can reach us an email at dearly, debatedcom odoyoulicom at dearlydebated at gmailcom, and you know what I'm going to snag: that twitter two atdearly debated all right guys until next time I'm Greg Prince and I'mNathaniel. The force is strong with this one good night. I didn't do that.Then.

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